Than I've learned my entire carrier.
About the business of surveying.
Back in the 80's and most of the 90's clients were always there, the phone rang everyday and we were always overworked and understaffed (so it seemed). Clients seemed to be everywhere and it wasn't very hard to secure work.
Anybody that liked the outdoors and had an aptitude for math, success was there for the taking. All they had to do was show up and put in a little effort. Those who put in a little extra and did a little more than what was expected of them, moved through the ranks very quickly and lucratively.
Today young guys call me all the time and send me resumes. I can't help but think that they might be in the wrong profession and that there may not be any future for them in surveying. I wish them luck.
The overall number of clients are fewer today and what work there is, is being spread over a larger client base. Clients are shopping for lowest fees for every project, and they tell you that. The competition is fierce and surveyors are providing services at rates akin to what was seen in 1990's
I've seen and been witness to many small firms going under. I know of 8 firms that employed 4-9 people go out of business in the last 3-4 years. I know of several larger firms that employed 15-35 people go out of business and I know of 2 big firms then employed in excess of 100 people, now operating at a fraction of that number.
All of these folks that once worked for an employer are now unemployable. Not due to anything they have done, but because of the lack of demand that employers have for wanting new help, due to no work. What are these guys doing now? Some (if not most) are still on the unemployment sheets, drawing unemployment benefits. Some of them are starting there own surveying business.
Clients, friends and relatives have contacted me over the last month or so, telling and asking me if I know "So and So" surveying? - I then call around, ask around, check the Secretary of State, and find out that "So & So surveying Company" is brand new. I know of at least 10 new firms (most appear to be solo operators) bidding for work in which there are already too many providers trying to secure the same project. - This trend will cause the already low fees to fall even further.
I suppose anyone with good business mind, would see the writing on the wall and vacate ASAP. But this profession is mostly made up of individuals that do not think as businessmen do. They mostly are stubborn, hard headed, callused folks that will press on, even when they know it might futile. And - I'm one of those guys.
I've always been of the mindset, that if things are bad, all you do is work a little harder, and everything will workout just fine. That may have been true and worked out before, but the last two years has proven to me that no matter how hard I work, the overall direction of this profession is worsening and I can not alter its' direction.
Yeah, you're pretty well screwed
> The overall number of clients are fewer today and what work there is, is being spread over a larger client base. Clients are shopping for lowest fees for every project, and they tell you that. The competition is fierce and surveyors are providing services at rates akin to what was seen in 1990's
Yeah, if all you're doing is providing nominally the same service as ten other surveyors, you're pretty well screwed if the only thing that distinguishes you is the fee you quote. The secret, such as it is, is to have clients call who want YOU to provide the service. That is an entirely different situation.
Yeah, you're pretty well screwed
Kent,
You wrote:
“The secret, such as it is, is to have clients call who want YOU to provide the service. That is an entirely different situation.”
Truer words were never spoken. That’s the difference between success and failure.
Have a great week!
Yeah, you're pretty well screwed
> The secret, such as it is, is to have clients call who want YOU to provide the service. That is an entirely different situation.
Kent..
You work in an area that demands solutions to some major boundary problems involving large areas, not every surveyor can build a reputation like you have been able to do. I have found that in my area the people that I do work for have little to no understanding what is involved to survey a parcel and what a good survey is compared to a sloppy, slap it in one.
The clients are always happy with the surveys that I do, and will always recommend me if they happen to be speaking to another that needs some surveying done. Though I get recommended a lot, the bottom line for most of the callers is what matters.
I have heard many times a caller ask "Don't all surveyors do the same thing and provide the right information?"
It's a hard question to answer so that they will understand that all surveyors do not provide the same services in the same way.
You can give examples to the callers but usually that is not important to them. On rare occasions it is and the caller does start to understand that it is more than turning an angle and measuring a distance so they can get a building permit, design a home, obtain clearance from a city inspector to pour concrete or get their neighbor who has built on their land to correct a situation .
For about 95% it's the best bottom line the callers are looking for.
PS Mineral rights in Texas are a lot different than mineral rights in So. Calif
Kent
Kent,
Success and a solid business you may have for the niche market you service.
But that is the exception rather than the rule in today's environment, and the average surveyor you are not.
I oft wonder that with all the work and demand your clients place upon you, how in the world can you devote so mush effort and time to such things like posting on miscellaneous message boards.
-
The reality of the situation is as I speak.
BTW- I just went through the numerous resumes that have been sent my way over the last 6 months (many from Texas) and I recall speaking to several surveyors on the phone, several from the great state of Texas. And these guys are looking to relocate because the surveying market there is bad too (for the average type surveyor, anyway)
- Why they think Colorado is any better is beyond me??
Kent good for you,
many successes I hope you have.
Kent
> But that is the exception rather than the rule in today's environment, and the average surveyor you are not.
Yes, the point is that if all you're trying to do is be the average surveyor, you're screwed before you get started.
Kent
Kent, you know, for one who claims to such a high degree of 'above averageness' as a land surveyor, you sure appear to have a hard time of grasping others' points of view. Almost seems like a contradictory mindset going on there.
But, hey, people are different all over.
Take care,
Ed
Kent
So - the field of professional land surveying and those now displaced by it are screwed.
Me - No worries, I'm still here and always will be.
I won't be hiring anybody however.
I'll advise anybody looking for solid employment to move to Texas
Kent, I will send all those resumes you're way.
Kent
> ... you sure appear to have a hard time of grasping others' points of view.
No, I understood what the OP wrote perfectly well. He just needed to be reminded that the scheme he'd chosen for himself, i.e. provide basically the same service ten other surveyor did and plan on working real, real hard to make up for the losses due to price competition was inherently faulty.
I try to impress upon people, in so many words, that a surveyor who is charging 1/3 to 1/2 of the area norm is having to turn out 2 to 3 times more invoices than everyone else just to make a living. Since we all have the same number of hours of daylight, they're probably spending about a third to a half of the time on the clients project that they should be spending.
When you're worried about getting blessed out by the boss for not completing the other five work orders on the front seat by 5:00(he can't afford overtime), it's kind of difficult to focus on doing a thorough job on each case.
I tell people that I'm not cheap, but I am thorough.
I've Learned More the last Two Years-.........
................... that serviceis what you need to 'sell'
Hit 'em with John Ruskin as Pat May put it to us 'in another place' :
There is scarcely anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse, and sell a little more cheaply. The person who buys on price alone is this man's lawful prey.
John Ruskin
YOS
DGG
The harsh truth (in my area)
Is that if a person needs a permit, clearance, OK to pour or basically anything that a city or county requires, even topo, they will go for the low bidder..after all even if something is wrong they go back to the surveyor to fix the damage one way or the other. They never consider that something can go wrong, they just want the fastest and cheapest.
I've Learned More the last Two Years-.........
I suggest whatever type of surveying services your company provides, that you find a way to add “value”. It is better to be viewed as having a consultative relationship with your client as opposed to being a commodity. It is best to find ways to set yourself apart from the competition.
If you want to race to the bottom as a commodity, have at it, and I’ll see you later.
IMike
Good post..until the end
>If you want to race to the bottom as a commodity, have at it, and I’ll see you later.
IMike
You can position your services as a commodity or a "value added" service. The choice is yours.
We may be considered a niche, but we displaced firms doing things the old way. Many of those firms acted as a commodity; they sold hours, not value.
Ask yourself, "What is a consultant"?
Many will answer a person with a set of valuable skills that an owner hires to fill a need. The same can be said for a temporary employment agency.
A consultant is hired for VALUE. A consultant solves a client's problem by designing a system that lessens the problem or makes it go away. The "consultant" works himself out of a job.
A consultant does not simply sell hours. A temporary employment agency sells hours.
IMike
There is a story on the local business page about a former HP middle manager who got laid off.
She bought a local laundromat business for 30k then invested 150k (from retirement savings) in renovating it. I wonder if she could've just started from scratch for 150k but maybe it has something to do with people being creatures of habit going to the same place to do laundry. And maybe the physical location has special utility hook-ups. Her schtick (or marketing gimmick) is that it's a "green" business. OK whatever. Supposedly it's doing well. Retail space in strip centers is supposed to be going for cheap.
IMike
Mike I have on my business card for over two decades
VALUE ADDED SURVEYORS
RADU
RADU
Ironically having a degree is a way to set yourself apart the degree also gives you the tools to devise more ways to set yourself apart.
It is true that when the "recession" is over there are going to be a lot less people in this profession. Those that survive will be the most efficient, the most committed, and those with specialties in niche markets. They will benefit from the upturn, when it comes. There will be those who are forced out of the profession. It is the nature of the capitalist system. Adapt or die.
> It is true that when the "recession" is over there are going to be a lot less people in this profession. Those that survive will be the most efficient, the most committed, and those with specialties in niche markets. They will benefit from the upturn, when it comes. There will be those who are forced out of the profession. It is the nature of the capitalist system. Adapt or die.
Mark, I agree with everything you say except when you use the word "when". I use the term "IF/when" anymore. IMHO, the world's population has grown just too dang large and is competing for a limited amount of easily obtained capital, food and energy.
This is not a good combination. To turn it all around, just in the U.S., would take a HUGE influx of manufacturing jobs BACK into this country. I just don't see how tptb will ever allow that to happen. It wouldn't make sense for them at the bottom line. As a surveyor your best hope is going to be your client base. Repeats and referrals. There are always going to be people who NEED surveying services. But that number is going to be continually shrinking in the future as far as I can tell right now.
I'm not trying to depress anyone or be a big pessimist. Just how I feel at the moment based on what trends I'm seeing.
Take care,
Ed
