AI Assistant
Notifications
Clear all

How to evaluate uncertainty in an azimuth

57 Posts
12 Users
0 Reactions
2,443 Views
cf-67
(@cf-67)
Posts: 367
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 
Posted by: @john-putnam

I think it is more critical to obtain the relationship of the sensors baseline to the axis of the vessel

Yes, that is definitely one thing the client has said is required.


 
Posted : July 25, 2020 2:00 pm
cf-67
(@cf-67)
Posts: 367
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

@ashton

Thanks for taking the time.

I thought maybe the "propagation of errors"  formula could be arranged to evaluate how coordinate uncertainty translates into azimuth uncertainty, but I was overthinking I think.

Without baseline processing software, I knew single point positioning of each point would only get me +/- 10mm. However I seem to have managed to overcome the difficulties I was having with GNSS Solutions and will now use that.


 
Posted : July 25, 2020 2:16 pm
larry-scott
(@larry-scott)
Posts: 1059
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

@cf-67

What was the GNSS hang up? Just curious. (It’s my only baseline processor at present.)

and it should be easy enough to make 2 observations, even at the obscene 1 hr ea. 


 
Posted : July 25, 2020 3:20 pm
larry-scott
(@larry-scott)
Posts: 1059
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

@bill93

i make no accommodation for 64 bit win10. I loaded it and it worked right off. I may not rennet the ins and outs right off, but I never had to abort. 


 
Posted : July 25, 2020 3:25 pm
richard-imrie
(@richard-imrie)
Posts: 2207
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

I'm going to step onto the nautical gang plank here and say FWIW, that heading is the direction vessel is pointing, and that's not necessarily the direction the vessel is going.


 
Posted : July 25, 2020 4:10 pm

cf-67
(@cf-67)
Posts: 367
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

@larry-scott

Too embarrassed to say....well ok...I wasn't including the "n" file...

  😕

It's been several years where single point positioning thru CSRS-PPP has been all I've needed - and for that you don't need to supply the "n" file as they use their own precise orbit and clock files.

Your comments encouraged me to have another go, so I appreciate that!


 
Posted : July 25, 2020 4:22 pm
bill93
(@bill93)
Posts: 9977
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 
Posted by: @richard-imrie

I'm going to step onto the nautical gang plank here and say FWIW, that heading is the direction vessel is pointing, and that's not necessarily the direction the vessel is going.

Yes, I mis-spoke.

?ÿ


 
Posted : July 25, 2020 4:24 pm
larry-scott
(@larry-scott)
Posts: 1059
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

@cf-67

glad to year that. I find that with seldom, or infrequent use of GNSS, I’m trial and error for a bit, every time. And in my scenario, OPUS is addictive and my neighborhood is replete with CORS. But when EDM won’t reach, and opus not good enough, GNSS baseline it is. 


 
Posted : July 25, 2020 4:57 pm
larry-scott
(@larry-scott)
Posts: 1059
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

@cf-67

then there’s the tragic mistake of using grid az instead of geo az because the adjustment was SOC or UTM. There’s few good stories of bad “true north”. So unadjusted, normal section az, from phase differential baseline is pure and unambiguous. 


 
Posted : July 25, 2020 5:27 pm
cf-67
(@cf-67)
Posts: 367
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

@larry-scott

Yes - most surveying mistakes are bad but sending a boat to it's doom with the wrong north is a whole other level of anguish :silly:  


 
Posted : July 25, 2020 5:53 pm

bill93
(@bill93)
Posts: 9977
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 
Posted by: @ashton

Sigh, not my day.?ÿ I took the 10 mm as a sideways error, but if it is the radial error at some confidence, the sideways error would be 7 mm, so was off by sqrt(2).


 
Posted : July 25, 2020 6:02 pm
larry-scott
(@larry-scott)
Posts: 1059
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

@cf-67

we had to as-built an antenna array. Deep space monitoring NASA/DoD many dollar antenna. Very accurately and precisely oriented to North by Polaris.

Just not the right north. They built it to grid N, not true N. 


 
Posted : July 25, 2020 7:09 pm
john-nolton
(@john-nolton)
Posts: 563
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

@larry-scott  Larry can you tell us why Grid North?

 

JOHN NOLTON


 
Posted : July 25, 2020 8:17 pm
larry-scott
(@larry-scott)
Posts: 1059
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

@john-nolton

not the correct North. It was a costly mistake.

And adjustment programs often (1989) routinely output only grid and the difference was either not understood, or not correctly outlined in the instructions. They only knew something was wrong when they turned it on.

and gps was not approved for the task, only Polaris.

Yeah, an accident.  


 
Posted : July 25, 2020 9:03 pm
cf-67
(@cf-67)
Posts: 367
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

Just to wrap things up and prove what a great resource RPLS Today is - here is a thread from 2016, referencing a thread from 2012, that already covered most of my questions.

?ÿ

https://surveyorconnect.com/community/gnss-geodesy/2012-thread-geodetic-north-line/

?ÿ

I find googling?ÿ a topic and adding "RPLS today" to the query, works better than using the built in search function. 🙂 ?ÿ

?ÿ


 
Posted : July 26, 2020 2:12 pm

nate-the-surveyor
(@nate-the-surveyor)
Posts: 10538
Member
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

What you said is really true. I wonder if Google is blocking other search engines... (Pure speculation).

N


 
Posted : July 27, 2020 10:36 am
cf-67
(@cf-67)
Posts: 367
Member
Topic starter
Translate
English
Spanish
French
German
Italian
Portuguese
Russian
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Arabic
Hindi
Dutch
Polish
Turkish
Vietnamese
Thai
Swedish
Danish
Finnish
Norwegian
Czech
Hungarian
Romanian
Greek
Hebrew
Indonesian
Malay
Ukrainian
Bulgarian
Croatian
Slovak
Slovenian
Serbian
Lithuanian
Latvian
Estonian
 

@nate-the-surveyor

Well I assumed the search function within RPLS today is built into the program - not a general search engine as such, but I don't know.

Actually, at the moment, if I use the built in search, no matter what I search, I get 7 pages of Wendell's Geodimeter for sale from 10 years ago! 😆  


 
Posted : July 27, 2020 10:54 am
Page 3 / 3