Help needed in Hawaii, big island.
My son-in-law bought a lot a few years ago, and has built a great small off-grid home. Now he wants to sell and wants to provide prospective buyer info.
The lot was surveyed before his original purchase, contracted for by seller, but all that is readily available is the attached cell phone photo... it does not show a title block, surveyor's name, etc.
I don't know if this is a mortgage survey or a recorded survey, direction is needed.
How can we help him begin a search for a full copy of the survey, the surveyor, etc. Apparently the makers are not tagged.
Who does he contact? Is there a county surveyor, county clerk, or some other repository of surveys?
Thanks for any leads or tips... Peter
PS: he is a bit preoccupied, my new grandson has him consumed
Looks like a true survey. The measurement data shown alone puts it ahead of 95 percent of all mortgage surveys I've ever seen. Mortgage surveys normally are intended to show that improvements already made PROBABLY are on the tract.
What a cutie ! (Your new Grandson, the survey looks pretty good too)
Congratulations!
it looks like the bearings are in Azimuth, probably North Azimuth... (R) I would assume means Record and (F) would be Found or Measured...
Spike is probably some generic local term used for iron pipe or rebar, but it could be a big nail or even a rail road spike.
Our conversations kept getting derailed to wife, kid, home cruft (that unimportant non survey stuff)
The original subdivision dates back to the 60's or so he thinks, mostly lots are undeveloped, all "3 acre" lots...
side note: it is in high country (about 800 meters) near the town of Volcano (out of the lava flow path), a bit cooler and lower humidity than the city of Hilo.
there are power and telephone lines in the front, but they built "off-grid" and out of pocket = zero debt. admirable in my mind. somehow my daughter absorbed my life philosophy and found a husband that is of like mind. this is their first child, they hope for many more.
Don't know about what others are saying about "good map" but looking at it for less than 2.56 seconds I see a horrendous distance mismatch on NE line.
Maybe a transposition of top number?
BobKrohn, post: 355734, member: 6827 wrote: Don't know about what others are saying about "good map" but looking at it for less than 2.56 seconds I see a horrendous distance mismatch on NE line.
Maybe a transposition of top number?
are you referring to 464.82 feet record vs. 456.36 feet measured and the 19 minutes of difference in direction?
I can fly to Hawaii, and figure it all out. In fact, I'd love to. And I'll bring my crew... For a proper fee... Of course!
I have a large crew... I'll confess.
I'll even find a Hawaii surveyor to stamp it!
He he he!
Peter Ehlert, post: 355722, member: 60 wrote: it looks like the bearings are in Azimuth, probably North Azimuth... (R) I would assume means Record and (F) would be Found or Measured...
Spike is probably some generic local term used for iron pipe or rebar, but it could be a big nail or even a rail road spike.Our conversations kept getting derailed to wife, kid, home cruft (that unimportant non survey stuff)
The original subdivision dates back to the 60's or so he thinks, mostly lots are undeveloped, all "3 acre" lots...side note: it is in high country (about 800 meters) near the town of Volcano (out of the lava flow path), a bit cooler and lower humidity than the city of Hilo.
there are power and telephone lines in the front, but they built "off-grid" and out of pocket = zero debt. admirable in my mind. somehow my daughter absorbed my life philosophy and found a husband that is of like mind. this is their first child, they hope for many more.
Without a title block or surveyor's name attached on the map, my first guess is that it was prepared by a pin finder and not a licensed land surveyor. The map does not include the information required for a C41 Survey boundary survey ( http://www.hlsahawaii.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/HLSA-Boundary-Surveys.pdf ) When I surveyed on the Big Island (mid 1990's through the early 2000's) there were several pin finders that worked in the rural parts (typically Puna) of East Hawaii. Despite the efforts of surveyors in Hawaii , I believe this practice still remains a problem.
As far as the bearings, boundary surveys in Hawaii are based on South Azimuth. The Fern Forest subdivision map should be available online at the state surveyor's office website ( http://ags.hawaii.gov/survey/ ). Hawaii is a non recording state, so typically, retracement surveys need to acquired from the client that originally ordered the survey.
The surveying field work in Fern Forest can definitely be challenging depending on the lot location and configuration. I fondly remember cutting line through the jungle (1045.44' REC front to back line) to get to the back corners of some of the "spaghetti" lots there, only to find no back monuments and then having to traverse the back line for (in some cases) another 1000+' to find a back monument to come off of.
I had a friend who surveyed in Hawaii and he set 6" round oak pointed pegs and left them sticking up a 0.10'. He said the point would go through the top soil and hit volcanic iron rock and splinter for stability and a Schondestedt was useless, Ha ha. As far as digging up existing surveys, usually the title company examiner who worked that closing has them in private files, not public.
HICALS, post: 355746, member: 6788 wrote: Without a title block or surveyor's name attached on the map, my first guess is that it was prepared by a pin finder and not a licensed land surveyor. The map does not include the information required for a C41 Survey boundary survey ( http://www.hlsahawaii.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/HLSA-Boundary-Surveys.pdf ) When I surveyed on the Big Island (mid 1990's through the early 2000's) there were several pin finders that worked in the rural parts (typically Puna) of East Hawaii. Despite the efforts of surveyors in Hawaii , I believe this practice still remains a problem.
As far as the bearings, boundary surveys in Hawaii are based on South Azimuth. The Fern Forest subdivision map should be available online at the state surveyor's office website ( http://ags.hawaii.gov/survey/ ). Hawaii is a non recording state, so typically, retracement surveys need to acquired from the client that originally ordered the survey.
The surveying field work in Fern Forest can definitely be challenging depending on the lot location and configuration. I fondly remember cutting line through the jungle (1045.44' REC front to back line) to get to the back corners of some of the "spaghetti" lots there, only to find no back monuments and then having to traverse the back line for (in some cases) another 1000+' to find a back monument to come off of.
HICALS: thanks for the state surveyor's office link and a flavor of the local practice. I am not finding Fern Forest in Registered Map or HTS/HSS Plat Map or Hawaiian Home Lands indexes.
since my yerno did not hire the surveyor he has no contact info... I told him to contact the sales agent that handled his purchase, perhaps they keep records, maybe even a copy. I also suggested asking his new sales agent also, perhaps people share resources over there.
as luck would have it he asked me about this only a couple hours before we flew out so I was unable to assist much other than filling his ear with that "unwanted father-in-law noise".
baby Jesse says "what we gonna do?"
Peter Ehlert, post: 355752, member: 60 wrote: HICALS: thanks for the state surveyor's office link and a flavor of the local practice. I am not finding Fern Forest in Registered Map or HTS/HSS Plat Map or Hawaiian Home Lands indexes.
since my yerno did not hire the surveyor he has no contact info... I told him to contact the sales agent that handled his purchase, perhaps they keep records, maybe even a copy. I also suggested asking his new sales agent also, perhaps people share resources over there.
as luck would have it he asked me about this only a couple hours before we flew out so I was unable to assist much other than filling his ear with that "unwanted father-in-law noise".baby Jesse says "what we gonna do?"
The recording information can be found by using the Hawaii County Assessor's map ( http://www.hawaiicounty.gov/tax-maps/current/zone-1/section-1/ )and looking on the lower left side of the map. For example, the center of the Fern Forest subdivision is more or less located in division 25 (h11025.tif on the assessor's website). The recording information for said division is LD CT. APP. 1053(Map 52). This information can inputted into the State Surveyor's map search website under Land Court Applications to find the recorded subdivision map. Hope this helps
HICALS, post: 355764, member: 6788 wrote: The recording information can be found by using the Hawaii County Assessor's map ( http://www.hawaiicounty.gov/tax-maps/current/zone-1/section-1/ )and looking on the lower left side of the map. For example, the center of the Fern Forest subdivision is more or less located in division 25 (h11025.tif on the assessor's website). The recording information for said division is LD CT. APP. 1053(Map 52). This information can inputted into the State Surveyor's map search website under Land Court Applications to find the recorded subdivision map. Hope this helps
Excellent!
I was able to drill down and get the property identified in the tax map... well, at least it is about the correct shape and dimensions, and they Are paying the taxes on it 🙂
there must be a Fern Forest sub and also a Fern Forest Vacation Estates sub also... still working on it but getting there.
Thanks tons... your Karma Index is rising rapidly 🙂 
Richard, post: 355768, member: 833 wrote: Can [USER=7679]@yswami[/USER] help you?
He's from Kauai I think.
Aloha, Richard: Thank you for thinking of me...I am not a licensed surveyor÷¼ü But definitely can give few pointers based on my very, very limited survey experience...
[USER=7709]@Peter[/USER] Ehlers Hawaii uses South Azimuth. But looks like [USER=6788]@HICALS[/USER] pointed this out already...
Hawaii do not require the surveyor to put any markers or tags on his pins!! Nor the survey required to be recorded! It is optional. Of course any conveyance that have occurred would have been recorded. Your SIL can search here... https://boc.ehawaii.gov/docsearch/nameSearch.html He can also call them...their offices are in Honolulu, island of Oahu. He need to have the tax map key number of the property.
There are several companies can help him with this too. One that I've used in the past is this one http://www.tghawaii.com Their Kauai office staffs were extremely helpful to me in the past.
I wish I have surveyor friend on the Big Island...
Nice to be back again...Aloha!
yswami, post: 355772, member: 7679 wrote: Aloha, Richard: Thank you for thinking of me...I am not a licensed surveyor÷¼ü But definitely can give few pointers based on my very, very limited survey experience...
[USER=7709]@Peter[/USER] Ehlers Hawaii uses South Azimuth. But looks like [USER=6788]@HICALS[/USER] pointed this out already...Hawaii do not require the surveyor to put any markers or tags on his pins!! Nor the survey required to be recorded! It is optional. Of course any conveyance that have occurred would have been recorded. Your SIL can search here... https://boc.ehawaii.gov/docsearch/nameSearch.html He can also call them...their offices are in Honolulu, island of Oahu. He need to have the tax map key number of the property.
There are several companies can help him with this too. One that I've used in the past is this one http://www.tghawaii.com Their Kauai office staffs were extremely helpful to me in the past.
I wish I have surveyor friend on the Big Island...
Nice to be back again...Aloha!
good info Yswami, thanks.
I pointed Jesse, my yerno (son-in-law), to this thread... he is over his head in all of this but very bright and like a sponge.
BTW: do any of you out there dream of owning a home in Hawaii? I was amazed to find how affordable it actually is. Jesse and Isabel's place is awesome, and it can be had for Less than $99,999.00 and owner financing is possible.
