CC
My aim is true.
"field fitting" as applied to the original post, and in most cases, is altering the design. Granted a very minor adjustment here or there is one thing, but a 2 foot shift is another.
I recently was involved in a downtown project where the contractor and surveyor decided the original design didn't made sense to them and they made what they thought was a somewhat minor change to the curb and gutter.
First real rain after it was constructed, a large puddle backed up onto the traveled way portion of the roadway.
The curb and gutter was subsequently torn out and put back the way it was originally designed.
Been there, seen it done more than a couple of times.
As far as where it is stated in the law, take a look at the CA PE Act in the B&P code. Its pretty clear on the definition of civil engineering. Deviating from an existing engineering design is clearly within that definition.
Its purely a case of you don't know what you don't know.
I've seen it written that "ignorance is bliss".
In reality, it's just plain dangerous.
I'm with Blake; an everyday occurrence in my neck of the woods. It’s these types of situations that cause good contractors to hire licensed surveyors versus the back of the pick-up truck party chief. Of course, we would have as-built all existing ties and had a resolution prior to the day before the pour.
About 1976 I came in on a project, "Portland Community Collage, Rock Creek", The sewer and roads were staked out, sewer in, roads rough. Needed to do the rest. When laying out the buildings their service connections did not match what had been constructed and in place nor did the road and sidewalk entry's fit. It all checked out with the plans. It was the Architect that knowing that ownership went to the C/L of 66' wide county roads but being a ROW in place he started his coordinate system on the ROW lines instead of C/L like everyone else and was intended and reported as such. No one would come out to correct anything. My orders were to make it fit, I did, as a party chief with an associate degree and 2 years experience. What an education into that world and also finding out many subcontractors without constant supervision follow stakes blindly without looking at plans or even reading the stakes for possible changes in offsets or grade. Did all the comps at night with an HP 35 and staked it with a T-16 with a DI-3. Glad to come home from that one and have avoided construction stacking except for some subdivision work, slope staking and blue tops when I couldn't escape gracefully.
jud
The first thing after set out on any job is to check into extras control.
Then if setting out works the next procedure is to then locate the critical adjacent existing points in x,y and z and set out some nearest adjacent critical points to compare design with actual. If bells ring then pull up gear. If all is well proceed.
Seems fairly basic.
RADU
SNARE Membership Drive
(should be under Humor but it fits here perfectly)
SNARE Membership Drive.
A group of unidentified individuals have gathered together to form the Secret National Association of Re-Engineers, or SNARE for short. Eligible applicants include anyone that is not a Professional Engineer but spend a portion of their time fixing the mistakes and problems caused by Engineers. Although a background with formal training in Engineering may be helpful, only common sense is required.
The existence of the Association shall be public but the identity of it's members will remain secret to prevent the State Engineering Board from hunting them down.
Members on an individual basis will not be practicing Engineering but will be fixing the problems of Engineers that need more practice. As an Association, members will compile evidence on offending Engineers and present it to the proper board for action. They will be SNAREd.
A list of Engineers that need to be SNAREd will be compiled and made available to the members. This will allow members to avoid jobs involving the worst offenders or encourage them to document problems thoroughly as the job progresses in hopes of getting more SNAREs.
Registered Professional Engineers wishing to clean up their profession may join as Associate members. They may take on an advisory role but will not be allowed to vote or have access to the membership roster.
> You received the notice that your company will be doing the construction stakeout, great! Now all you need to do is sign a piece of paper, called a contract, to begin work on the site.
>
> Only one problem, there is a phrase in the contract saying something such as, "Surveyor is responsible for checking all existing conditions prior to stakeout". You don't think anything of it and begin the work, next thing you know, the curb is off by 2ft or more and the design for the sidewalk and wall now have to be relocated. The construction manager on site will tell you, well just "field fit it", we have the concrete guys scheduled for tomorrow and we need it in, pull a cloth tape! Well, that's not always the case when, for example, all of the curbing is off quite a bit and the whole design is now incorrect. Who is to blame? The surveyor that did the pre-conditioned survey, but you now are expected to relocate and "field fit" (aka design) the structures to fit. Not in our expertise as surveyors or the scope of work.
>
> So now you are stuck between trying to make the construction manager happy, while not getting paid, and possibly doing something illegal by "field fitting" structures. What do you do? How do you get around this without upsetting your clients and holding up the project?
>
> -Russell S. L.S.I.T.
"Surveyor is responsible for checking all existing conditions prior to stakeout"
You are obligated by contract to check the existing conditions, and if different than the plan, report the existing conditions to original plan preparer, nothing more. The liability for the design is on them. I bet your insurance company could clear that up for you if you asked!
We always did that even if it was not specified in the contract. Most contractors would rather fix something before it is built rather than tear it out and try to submit an extra for the work.
Did you check the boundary before you started out?
How are you figuring your lay out points? Are you using dimensions off a set of APPROVED FOR CONSTRUCTION civil plans, or are you generating them via an AutoCAD dwg. file?
Who says the curbs are off 2 feet or more? What control are they using to verify?
If you where laying out curbs points that did not agree with what the dirt contractor had excavated by more than 2 feet, you should have spotted that right away.
If you willingly redesign at the General Contractor's request, YOU ASSUME ALL LIABILITY.
At this point (without being there to see it myself), I would suggest that you get all your ducks in a row (i.e., make sure you have "APPROVED" plans, make sure you came off the right control points/property corners, check with the dirt man and see what he used,...etc, etc, etc).
"I bet your insurance company could clear that up for you if you asked!"
I wonder what expertise an insurance company would lend in this instance. No matter what is ultimately decided, I hope the surveyor relies on his knowledge and experience as opposed to who answers the phone at the insurance company!
> "I bet your insurance company could clear that up for you if you asked!"
>
> I wonder what expertise an insurance company would lend in this instance. No matter what is ultimately decided, I hope the surveyor relies on his knowledge and experience as opposed to who answers the phone at the insurance company!
Well, I hope you would talk to your agent, not the front desk lady. Of course, if you don't have insurance it wouldn't matter anyway what your policy would cover if you messed up the design and took on liability that you were not covered for.
I believe the person at the front desk is a man and my agent is a wonderful Lady (shame on you for the sexist remark) whom I rely on to give me the best rates. However, I do not defer my professional judgment to her on survey issues and she doesn’t ask me questions about her taxes.
I am not saying to ask them about surveying, just what types of work would be covered under your policy!