Kent
>Keith really, really hates losing even when he absolutely has no chance to win....
Yes, but I've argued with Keith for long enough to know that when his posts become one-liners disconnected from the actual topic and he starts a new thread, he's admitted defeat.
Kent
Yeah I know. He does it all the time.
Keith and Kent
I would be willing to bet that the BLM surveyor in this case does not know the difference between 2 1/2" diam. stainless steel post, a 2 1/2" diam. iron post, and a 2 1/2" diam. galvanized steel pipe.
Keith and Kent
I would bet you're wrong.
I find the constant BLM bashing here quite amusing.
In my 30 years of surveying, I have found their work to be consistently excellent. That's more than can be said for the private sector.
Jeff
That appears to be a "general" listing for a monument. I believe the answer is in the detailed specification that is no longer available.
Don't you believe a detailed specification would include the monument length and cross sectional requirements? guage and type of steel? method to attach brass cap? etc.
I have seen plenty of BLM monuments, not one was ever on a 2 1/2 diam. stainless steel pipe or 1/2 diam. iron pipe.
Jeff
I have seen plenty of BLM monuments, not one was ever on a 2 1/2 diam. stainless steel pipe or 1/2 diam. iron pipe.
You need to get out more.
Kent
> I mean, you formerly would have held that all of the erroneously set monuments should be left in place as they were and new ones set. That's what this whole discussion has been about, whether to correct problematic surveying fox-ups or to just leave them as they are and watch them grow.
Actually, I find the scope of this discussion changes or narrows when you need it to:
> No, that's hardly true. There are plenty of highly competent surveyors in Texas. However, we've been discussing the quickie-dickie specialists who dominate the residential survey market in particular.
We go from discussing BLM corrective surveys to platted lots in Austin mighty quick!
And there is a difference between the BLM doing this type of work, and every surveyor with a slip of paper & a rubber stamp. I mean, if these examples were in Texas, and the BLM hadn't done the corrective survey, would you have?
Jeff
If you've seen so many stainless steel posts and iron posts, post some pictures.
My bet is you are too careless to describe the difference just like the BLM surveyor. Very similar to posting a "general" specification to somehow indicate a "detailed" specification.
Jeff
Not a very good photo, but here you go...
Jeff
Jeff
Galvanized steel is typically used. Stainless steel pipe is about 5 times as expensive as Galvanized steel pipe.
Kent
With guys who can't
a.) clearly interpret their own guidance and understand it and
b.) can't articulate or defend their actions
running the BLM, is there any doubt that it's quite possible that BLM surveys could be so "foxed up"?
Jeff
"
"No evidence was found that indicated the erroneous monuments had been utilized by the public"
I'd be interested in the research that was done to prove that point. Was it just a look around to see if there were any fences built to the screwed up corners, or did they really do a complete title search of all the adjoiners in the affected areas?
Andy
"No evidence was found that indicated the erroneous monuments had been utilized by the public"
The BLM crew chief balanced on one foot on top of the erroneous monument, scanned the horizon and cried out three times: Has anyone out there used this monument? ……errrr caught our screw up?
Andy
I know here in Florida if we use a section corner, we file a certified corner record. It would be interesting if they had something like that in Montana...
The topic under discussion
> > I mean, you formerly would have held that all of the erroneously set monuments should be left in place as they were and new ones set. That's what this whole discussion has been about, whether to correct problematic surveying fox-ups or to just leave them as they are and watch them grow.
>
> Actually, I find the scope of this discussion changes or narrows when you need it to:
No, this is a typical free-form discussion of a topic, but it has a fairly consistent theme. It began in an earlier thread with the subject of correcting mistaken surveys by careless surveyors, in particular the case where there was an existing, original, undisturbed monument and a quickie-dickie surveyor had his or her minions set a new marker near it in ignorance of the original.
It continued with a couple of surveyors expressing shock that anyone would even suggest that it would be a good idea to remove the mistaken quickie-dickie marker in many cases,
It continued with a couple of surveyors suggesting that in fact it would illegal to do that,
It continued with a review of various state laws that showed that in many states it would be not illegal,
It continued with Keith Williams making the blanket statement that the BLM never removed any survey monument, period!
It continued with me providing examples from the BLM that showed that in fact they did correct mistaken surveys and did in fact remove private surveyors' markers in a way that effectively made them disappear,
And it continues, but the topic still is that of the case where it is obvious that a mistaken survey needs to be corrected and where the markers of that survey are best removed.
The topic under discussion
Again, what about adverse possession to said marker? Are you not, in removing said marker removing evidence of said adverse possession? How long has that marker been in the ground before you became judge and jury and just yanked the sucker because you can survey better than Jimmy Joe Bubba? Did you even consider if the person has been cultivating to said iron long enough to have ripened into an adverse possession?
Keith and Kent
> I find the constant BLM bashing here quite amusing.
Hey, I'm not bashing the BLM. I'm really not. I am pointing out that the BLM does correct mistaken surveys and that those corrections have involved removing and resetting monuments and making mistaken monuments effectively disappear. This was to remind Keith that a blanket statement he made didn't actually reflect what BLM has done in cases when it was warranted.
Keith and Kent
I didn't think you were.
What I'm referring to happened in other threads.
The topic under discussion
I am really curious to hear your response to the quest I posed:
If these examples were in Texas, and you were performing a survey that discovered erroneous 1/4 cors (or whatever), would you in fact perform this "correction" (remove offensive monument)? A cookie-cutter lot in a city block is one thing, but I would like to know if you would take this to the level of govt corners? When do you, Kent, yield to the belief that pulling a 'bad' monument would be a colossal, arrogant blunder?
Kent
Now you are simply being an a$$ and a fool.
You started this whole idiotic nonsense by telling me that;
BLM Retiree
by Kent McMillan , Austin, TX, Friday, August 06, 2010, 16:15 (15 hours, 17 minutes ago) @ Keith
And I'm sure that the BLM never, ever ordered the obliteration of some existing survey marker, eh? :>
and I responded;
BLM never ordered the obliteration of any survey monument, period!
and I further responded;
If you have proof of BLM ordering the obliteration of private survey monuments, bring it on!
So, what does Kent do; he brings up examples of BLM doing corrective resurveys in Wyoming. He simply can't tell the difference between his practice of pulling what he considers erroneous monuments that do not fall on his instrument straight line and
BLM who was notified that they missed a private survey monument and made the judgement to go back and accept that 2 bit rebar for the true corner and correct all the other proportioned corners that were consequently in the wrong place.
They pulled the 2 bit rebar, put it inside a standard stainless steel post, planted that post in the exact location of the 2 bit rebar, thus preserving the location and then moved the other proportioned corner monuments that were tied to this corner.
Now it does not take a whole lot of thought to see the intended confusion here and only Kent is confused and can't see the difference in how he moves private survey corner monuments and how BLM accepts private survey monuments.
Yes, Fauk, BLM uses several different types of monuments, some are galvanized, some are stainless steel, some are copper coated and do not use sticks and stones anymore.
This entire asinine sequence of intentional bad mouthing of BLM has only been to attempt to show that Kent's method of pulling private survey corners is ok?
Well it isn't ok, and I would like to see other Texas land surveyors stand up and tell us that practice is ok in Texas and that they do it too.
How about it, Texas land surveyors?
Are there any readers here from the Texas Survey Board and want to comment on this practice?
And to the kids that posted nonsense posts about me, get a clue!
Keith
Keith
