Woopigsurveyor, post: 329004, member: 8227 wrote: I am beginning to see a pattern here. It appears that in metes and bounds states the deeds are rewritten alot which makes sense as each adjoiners name would change with each transaction, however in PLSS states where we have statutory corners it definitely creates a horribly cloudy title if you write a new legal each time.
As has been mentioned many times on this board Ohio Surveyors get the worst of all of the above. Parts of Ohio were surveyed using various colonial systems. Much of the rest was the testing ground for the PLSS. Testing ground means Ohio got all the failed attempts at creating the PLSS. Then in several areas there are LET US JUST STICK THIS IN HERE survey non systems.
Here in the Texas Hill Country you send out signed and stamped field notes (legal description) and the stupid @$& title companies re type it and insert into the body of the deed. No exhibit A here. If you use your name or Firm No. such as "surveyed this day by Super Surveyors of America" in the legal it gets retyped along with all of the scriveners errors introduced by the Title Co.
SWAG, post: 329242, member: 1364 wrote: Here in the Texas Hill Country you send out signed and stamped field notes (legal description) and the stupid @$& title companies re type it and insert into the body of the deed. No exhibit A here. If you use your name or Firm No. such as "surveyed this day by Super Surveyors of America" in the legal it gets retyped along with all of the scriveners errors introduced by the Title Co.
This has been a very interesting thread - thanks to all who have contributed. I had no idea that title companies operated under such radically different premises based on locality...
"title companies re type it and insert into the body of the deed"
Local title companies and attorneys would do the same here.
I then notified and thanked them very much for altering the text of my work before entering into their finished product, thereby, they had released me from any possible liability connected to that property.
I have sat in the witness stand and testified that deed descriptions as recorded were not of my making and that I was not the author. Upon being called out and ask if I surveyed the property, I answered YES. When asked to explain myself, I stated that the text I authored was rewritten by someone because what I put on paper is not verbatim to what is in that deed and stated that certain required information from State BOR regulations like bearing source and personal statement that I had indeed surveyed the property on the ground had been omitted.
When anyone calls and ask me any questions to clear up problems with something I have surveyed in the past, I require a copy of their deed. If that information is not in the text of the description, I usually pass the buck on to the person that drafted the deed to clear up any problem. The discussion always comes back to me and I am usually allowed to let them know why I do not assume any responsibility to do anything about the problem and that I will be happy to assist for a fee.
I will always check and look at my work and if I have erred, I am happy to fix what is wrong.
When the text has been altered, I usually charge for my time.
After seeing the error of their ways they now leave text as is for the transfer or simply add an original of my property description into their product.
:gammon:
I find it amazing that even re-writing legal descriptions can not be agreed upon by like professionals. The longer I do this job the more confused I get. Both Jim and Bill have 90 years of experience between them and are adamant about their different points view of this subject. Could you imagine being an apprentice for one then going to work for the other? You would be a confused individual. You have to love surveying! Jp
LotÛªs of good points about different practices. IÛªm fortunate to be from an area where we (generally) recognize that an exhibit shows the intent of the parties better than any metes and bounds description.
Back to part of the OP issue ÛÏThey send me a copy of the final description and they left out the overlap, (said it affects title).Û
IÛªm not from NC but it looks like the NC definition of the ÛÏPractice of Land SurveyingÛ includes writing legal descriptions (emphasis added by me) (89C (7) a. Providing professional services such as consultation, investigation, testimony, evaluation, planning, mapping, assembling, and interpreting reliable scientific measurements and information relative to the location, size, shape, or physical features of the earth, improvements on the earth, the space above the earth, or any part of the earth, whether the gathering of information for the providing of these services is accomplished by conventional ground measurements, by aerial photography, by global positioning via satellites, or by a combination of any of these methods, and the utilization and development of these facts and interpretations into an orderly survey map, plan, report, description, or project.
The code goes on to give some more specific examples. SoÛ? NC Surveyors ÛÒ Is describing property lines, easements, or boundaries covered under your definition? ÛÒ it looks like it is.
Descriptions written by unqualified individuals (regardless of what the local practice is) harm the public by creating boundary disputes/problems and creating a lot of expense to resolve those problems.
What does the NCBELS say about writing legal descriptions?
If it's the practice of Land Surveying - then does the title company have a PLS writing (or overseeing) legal descriptions? If not, a complaint should be filed.
Another question - do you seal and sign your legal descriptions? If not, how are people going to know it wasn't prepared by an unqualified person?
Ignoring what people generally have done: What does the law in your state say? Does the preparation of legal descriptions fall under the definition of land surveying?
JKinAK, post: 329300, member: 7219 wrote: LotÛªs of good points about different practices. IÛªm fortunate to be from an area where we (generally) recognize that an exhibit shows the intent of the parties better than any metes and bounds description.
Back to part of the OP issue ÛÏThey send me a copy of the final description and they left out the overlap, (said it affects title).Û
IÛªm not from NC but it looks like the NC definition of the ÛÏPractice of Land SurveyingÛ includes writing legal descriptions (emphasis added by me) (89C (7) a. Providing professional services such as consultation, investigation, testimony, evaluation, planning, mapping, assembling, and interpreting reliable scientific measurements and information relative to the location, size, shape, or physical features of the earth, improvements on the earth, the space above the earth, or any part of the earth, whether the gathering of information for the providing of these services is accomplished by conventional ground measurements, by aerial photography, by global positioning via satellites, or by a combination of any of these methods, and the utilization and development of these facts and interpretations into an orderly survey map, plan, report, description, or project.
The code goes on to give some more specific examples. SoÛ? NC Surveyors ÛÒ Is describing property lines, easements, or boundaries covered under your definition? ÛÒ it looks like it is.
Descriptions written by unqualified individuals (regardless of what the local practice is) harm the public by creating boundary disputes/problems and creating a lot of expense to resolve those problems.
What does the NCBELS say about writing legal descriptions?
If it's the practice of Land Surveying - then does the title company have a PLS writing (or overseeing) legal descriptions? If not, a complaint should be filed.Another question - do you seal and sign your legal descriptions? If not, how are people going to know it wasn't prepared by an unqualified person?
Ignoring what people generally have done: What does the law in your state say? Does the preparation of legal descriptions fall under the definition of land surveying?
Thnaks for the info, Writing descriptions based on retracement surveys in NC is very common, they are many tracts that havent been surveyed much in the last 100 years and the record descriptions are unreadable in some cases. I just havent ever had anyone deliberatley leave out a portion of it. Aren't attorney's and their staff working under the supervision of the attorney allowed to write descriptions from surveys? I sent a signed hard copy
Dallas Morlan, post: 329027, member: 6020 wrote: As has been mentioned many times on this board Ohio Surveyors get the worst of all of the above. Parts of Ohio were surveyed using various colonial systems. Much of the rest was the testing ground for the PLSS. Testing ground means Ohio got all the failed attempts at creating the PLSS. Then in several areas there are LET US JUST STICK THIS IN HERE survey non systems.
ONE of the many reasons I have never been interested in obtaining an Ohio Registration.
Hats doffed to all competent Ohio Surveyors.:stakeout:
Adam, post: 329317, member: 8900 wrote: Aren't attorney's and their staff working under the supervision of the attorney allowed to write descriptions from surveys? I sent a signed hard copy
It all depends on your state law. In Alaska, the attorney would have to get their survey license to legally do that. Having said that, I'm not aware of anyone bringing a complaint to the AELS Board about who is writing legal descriptions - that's kind of unfortunate since legal descriptions are responsible for quite a few problems. I think they don't get reported to the Board because 1) the problem typically isn't discovered for many years; 2) most folks have no idea who wrote the legal description, and; 3) most folks don't know that they are supposed to be written by a land surveyor.
And... I agree - you've got to be a sharp individual to competently handle all of the different systems that were implemented in Ohio. Thanks for making it better for all of us to the west!