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about those school shootings . . . survey-related

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(@retired69)
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Evidently, a lot of news is now coming out about schools have poor, incorrect or otherwise unusable maps of the schools, the cooridoors, rooms . . . what-have-you.

In Ohio(and probably other states), the schools are legally required to have updated/current, accurate maps of the schools for fire, law enforcement and what-have-you.

This could be about potential business . . . but it's likely/eventually about the safety of your children.

 
Posted : December 17, 2012 8:17 am
(@marc-anderson)
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Some schools have already started or have completed having their facilities scanned in 3D. This is much better than a map because it lets first responders find their way in 3D in case of smoke or fumes as well.....

 
Posted : December 17, 2012 9:23 am
(@ashton)
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I'm a first responder. I've never seen a first responder who had an electronic device that could be carried into a building to find one's way around. Maybe some big cities have it.

 
Posted : December 17, 2012 10:40 am
(@sicilian-cowboy)
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Around here, the FDNY does periodic inspections of public (and some private) buildings, so the local fire companies have at least some preliminary working knowledge of the buildings they are protecting.

Also, most of the buildings have plans on file at the School Construction Authority, or in the case of older schools, the Building Department.

Now, how soon access can be arranged so these plans are helpful, that's anybody's guess.

 
Posted : December 17, 2012 11:24 am
(@andykubiak)
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> I've never seen a first responder who had an electronic device that could be carried into a building to find one's way around.

Yet 🙂

 
Posted : December 17, 2012 12:13 pm
(@kris-morgan)
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Many years ago, our school district was working this up and we did some "data manipulation" on existing plans and add-ons for this purpose. They have not been updated since we did our looky at it.

I urged the super to let me go into all of the schools and make detailed drawings with doors, lockers, closets, bathrooms, etc. I told him we could do it on weekends and after school hours, to not disrupt class.

No dice.

 
Posted : December 17, 2012 12:25 pm
(@dave-karoly)
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My experience doing school topos is they have no idea where the underground utilities run, sewer, water, electric, etc. They also have a lot of network cables. Some older schools have gangs of conduits retrofitted by installing them under the walkway canopies.

 
Posted : December 17, 2012 8:52 pm
(@retired69)
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My understanding about the mapping is that the schools need to have updated/legible/usable maps of corridors and rooms and such, not something very elaborate.

I have seen maps that have been filed as the safety maps and wow . . . there's no way I'd no what to do if I was at a door and got information that a shooter was in the N.E. corner of room 302.

This thing with scanning is great, but I don't think we're talking about policemen doing "virtual" walk-throughs with magical LED helmets.

Rather, I surmise, that we're talking about simple, very easy to read, very easy to replicate(Xerox), maps that will help a safety person find one room or another.

 
Posted : December 18, 2012 6:11 am
(@cliff-mugnier)
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I don't know if such things still exist, but back in the early 1970s I was informed that the Sanborn Map Company (someplace in New York state), had been producing maps of cities and towns (all over the U.S.) in which every room of every building on every floor was documented. I think it was for fire insurance companies.

Do they still do that?

 
Posted : December 18, 2012 10:27 am
(@supply-guy)
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In our school district police and fire have staged practice drills in schools during holiday breaks. I think this started after the Columbine shootings.

Two high schools have city halls and police departments as neighbors.

One fire department practice run was in an closed elementary school that was scheduled for demolition. Cut through the roof, knocked holes in walls etc. Since many of the schools in the district were built in the same time frame, mid 1950's, they share common construction details.

One of the lessons from Columbine is you go in with what you've got. Waiting for the SWAT team in this type of situation only allows it to go on longer. A few years ago there was an active shooter here seemingly intent on doing harm at a Target store where he once worked. Unfortunately two people were killed in the parking lot before he entered the mall but he'd wounded a police officer earlier who alerted others. Shooter was confronted and killed by an police officer just outside the interior mall entrance to the Target store. Sunday afternoon, store was very busy.

 
Posted : December 18, 2012 11:41 am
(@sicilian-cowboy)
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Sanborn, which used to be based in Pelham, NY, just north of the Bronx, has been mapping cities since the 1860's. Started by a land surveyor, D. A. Sanborn, the maps were started as an aid to determine fire insurance rates. The original company was called D.A. Sanborn National Insurance Diagram Bureau. The company has expanded and of course adopted modern mapping techniques, and has expanded (five offices across the country, HQ in Colorado) now apparently part of a larger corporation.

The old paper maps (large bound books, 30" by 30", usually organized by tax blocks) showed streets, alleys, etc., plus building usage, height in stories and building materials, as well as some utility lines, especially gas and water, as they were heavily relied upon in the fire insurance industry. I've never seen a Sanborn that goes into room to room detail, although they did often shown certain interior details (stairwells, elevator shafts, etc.)

Most of the surveyors I've known in NYC had a full set of maps for their areas of practice. If you were a subscriber, they used to send out little pieces of paper when they updated the maps, so the complete set would have the new buildings glued in on top of the original.

 
Posted : December 18, 2012 11:55 am
(@retired69)
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Maybe this explains why the quality of these maps were so high?

 
Posted : December 19, 2012 5:23 am
(@retired69)
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oops . . .

"Started by a land surveyor, D. A. Sanborn,"

Maybe "this", is why the quality of these maps were so high?

 
Posted : December 19, 2012 5:24 am