Mike,
Another question if I may. A sticking point with me for years has been someone with the company calling me to shoot a pile and I have to guess at where the bottom is. Sometimes it is overlapping piles, grading roads between piles, cutting ditches, ect. I never had the opportunity to shoot the topo before the piles were delivered. I know the best way is to have a boss or super that will listen but that never happened either.
At a hotmix plant I shot a pile of man-sand and the quantities did not match. This was several years after the plant was first setup. I went back with a shovel and gave up. I talked to someone onsite with a backhoe and we dug a few holes. They had been driving on 2.5 feet of man-sand that was outside the perimeter of the current pile and didn't know it.
I looked at the www.stockpilereports.com website and they mention under the TEAM tab "March 2017, Pile-centric dashboard launched"
Do they allow the ability to put your beginning surface in for the bottom layer of all calculations?
James
JaRo,
I don't know. I kind of doubt it from the demo I saw 3 years ago, but then again they've been doing this for a number of years so they may have developed more rigorous methods.
The "original base" is always problematic when the site is working before the first survey is done -?ÿ even more so on well established sites where there may be some information but you didn't survey it. We took over a coal stocking site survey once, where they did agree to move the stock around when it was very low and we managed to survey the base in stages. 10 years later we repeated the exercise and found some areas of base had compacted by over a metre - a difference in value of over $1M. After that the accountants made a point of ensuring we could get clear areas and check parts of the base fairly frequently.
As far as I can tell just about all the on-line calculation businesses have no, or very poor, option for feeding in existing bases. generally they seem to use the edge of the site as the reference (stockpilereports gives a percentage reliability on the edge string) and create something from that - you might as well spin a coin.
Long term, that will work in part, if only by looking at the changes between consecutive volumes. Then the relative period changes will be correct, but there will always be an underlying fixed error, which will only become apparent when :
a) the site is cleared, or
b) when the site shows negative volumes in some areas.
As far as overlapping heaps, I treat these in two ways. Either take the older ones and create a projected string down to the base or, if you can't tell just terminate each at the junction line and drop that vertically to the base.
Volume work has ALWAYS suffered from those who just guess a base. UAVs have made the problem ten times worse, especially as most of the culprits don't realise there is anything wrong in what they are doing.
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Just like everything we do, the details drive the tool.
My former employer had an annual commitment at a sand processor. The bases of the piles were stable. It is a perfect place for a drone.
The problem hitting us now is those who slash prices based on flying everything. No money for gound truthing. No money for reinvestment. Just pay the electric and keep buying lottery tickets.
We did the same thing with the EDM and GPS. When will we learn...
The honest (professionals) always play second fiddle to the rogues (market traders). It probably applies to politics as well.
About 34 years ago, I was working for a company that built about 1/2 mile of ditch for mine water and another parallel ditch for clean creek water diversion with a levee between them. First thing was stripping the area and stockpiling that.
We got everything built but the mine wanted us to take out the last 75 foot of levee to keep all water in the creek until they were ready to close it off and start mining that area. We had to build it first so the scrapers could get out, and then take out the 75 foot. Not a problem except when it was done, they didn't want to pay us for the last 75 foot of quantities.
I figured out the quantities of the 75 foot, then I figured out that if I lowered the existing ground around the topsoil pile by 6" and reshot the toe of slope on the topsoil pile, the quantities would be about equal. The mine never knew the difference.
James
If I had my way with setting up for long term piles, I would grade the area out to a constant slope and cement stabilize all of it. Then I would have the low profile traffic barriers installed between the piles. We have stacks of them from a previous job, they are 24" high, 28" wide, and about 25' long. The top corners could serve as perpetual control for photography, painted in a manner that worked best. Survey everything, including the barriers.
When the barriers disappeared, the site operators would know they had more than 2 foot of material that they were driving on. It's time to round up material and repile it. Anyone new coming in could get the bottom surface by shooting the barriers and subtracting 2 foot.
James
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Down memory lane....
The first time I did a survey like this was the first time I used a GPS Rover (with backpack) and was astounded at how the whole "line of sight" went out the window! Since then, it's only gotten better.
I would think LiDAR would be perfect for this type of survey, generally speaking.
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If I had my way with setting up for long term piles, I would grade the area out to a constant slope and cement stabilize all of it. Then I would have the low profile traffic barriers installed between the piles. We have stacks of them from a previous job, they are 24" high, 28" wide, and about 25' long. The top corners could serve as perpetual control for photography, painted in a manner that worked best. Survey everything, including the barriers.
James
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Just be careful about painting control on the top of narrow objects. Both Pix4D and Photoscan prefer the area around the control point to be at an even grade or level, otherwise you can get poor height residuals. A 28 inch wide barrier should be OK but use a 28 inch cross at the end, so the centre point is set well in from all edges.
I learnt a while ago not to put control on the edges of raised objects.
Chris
I did not know that but I do now!
Thanks,
James
Throw some paint on random places on the mounds. It will make it a little less homogeneous.?ÿ
@JaRo - Noticed that you are in Texas, so the TXDOT has licensed www.stockpilereports.com for all cut/fill quantity analysis, since early 2015.
https://blog.stockpilereports.com/insights/txdot-contract/
And discussed on this forum
https://surveyorconnect.com/community/construction-mining/john-henry-vs-iphone-stockpile-measure/
Stockpile reports has support for both drone based and handheld smartphone camera data images/videos for input.
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Respectfully - Michael Watson
New member = FAA licensed commercial drone pilot
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Thanks Michael,
I looked at their website but didn't find it, do they have a recommended camera angle (field of view) for best results?
James
James - this YouTube link might offer more details as there are 3 time length videos on how to use a drone for data collection and 1 video for using a plane for data collection. For instance they do have a large pile that is titled "Massive Pile Flyover" which could be your entree to ask them directly via their contact if their algorithms can accurately provide a volume calculation of that site, if they say yes then invite them to provide an onsite demo of your piles. They are bound to have ample reason to visit Texas in providing support for their TXDOT contract.?ÿ I hope you are able to find the information you are seeking. I do realize that I have not offered you a concrete answer to your original post and that is can the prairie dog piles be measured accurately. But here is one additional resource for your consideration added below. Again a different tool rather than a hard answer.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4MaY9H0N85yEj4nF2AzyWw/videos
and also try their blog for additional details
https://blog.stockpilereports.com/
another application vendor with advanced volumetric analysis applications
https://www.propelleraero.com/blog/beyond-stockpiles-measure-drones-and-propellers-volumetric-tools/
Please keep me posted as I am very curious to see what you determine. I also thought the other RPLS thread was interesting as the OP actually checked the SR data with more mainstream technology
Thanks Michael,
?ÿI just got home, been gone for a few days. I watched a couple of their videos but I see several more I want to watch. It will have to wait until tomorrow though.
James
