These were evidently taken in the vicinity of El Paso sometime between 1914 and 1916 (my guess).
Note the license plates (and horn):
The March 13, 1916 edition of "El Paso Herald" reported that automobile licenses 5574 through 5579 had been issued in El Paso County, among them being 5578 issued to R.J. Miller for an Indian motorcycle. So if the two motorcycles in the photos were from El Paso, as seems likely, they were licensed well before then based upon the lower numbers.
I assume that is a tank for the carbide headlamp strapped to the handlebars:
so cool..I've sat for the last half hour just looking at the photos and listening to them. What a story they can tell.
> so cool..I've sat for the last half hour just looking at the photos and listening to them. What a story they can tell.
Yes, from about that same period there's a great photo of General Francisco "Pancho" Villa and his Indian. The US Army bought some Harleys to give chase and we know how that turned out.
Some digging..
The 1902 through 1906 El Paso Directories, on-line at Utep, don't show an Indian Dealer that I could find. Not surprising, a feed dealer or blacksmith may have been the Indian Dealer, if there was one at all. From what I can tell, your dates for the Indians are about right.
Here is a 1914 pic of José Doroteo Arango Arámbula, better known as Pancho Villa, posing with a new Indian Scout. Villa considered the motorcycle possible strategic equipment for a victorious battle. He was known to have owned several. There is at least one report of him attempting to use motorcycles with machine guns mounted on them.
History has not treated him well. The man was a military genius. 😉
A Couple More Texas Indian Photos
and one last one with a good view of the machine:
I'm more surprised by the apparent fact that one of the motorcycle riders also had a camera that was small and sturdy enough to pack on the back. I don't think they had Kodak 'Brownies' back then, personal photos were just coming into their own. I'm pretty sure they didn't drop the film off at the Rexall to get developed either.
Pretty cool pics. How do you know they're from the El Paso area?
> Pretty cool pics. How do you know they're from the El Paso area?
They were posted to a Terrell County historical site. I thought from the license numbers and the scenery that they most likely weren't from Terrell County, but the landscape looked quite a bit like far West Texas. The combination of paved city streets, railroading, license numbers in the two thousands in about 1915, an irrigation ditch passing under a roadway, and a sign saying "Cadwallader" pretty much meant "El Paso". That and some photos of US military trucks from the same time period.
The clincher was this photo:
That is almost certainly Grossblatt's Cash Grocery at 512 North Stanton Street in El Paso in the background.
From an ad in a 1915 edition of the El Paso newspaper:
> That is almost certainly Grossblatt's Cash Grocery at 512 North Stanton Street in El Paso in the background.
The 1908 Sanborn's maps for El Paso agree. Even if the building occupied by Grossblatt's hadn't apparently been built in 1908, those at 504-510 fit the photo.:
So, the camera was in front of 513 North Stanton looking across the street to 512.
Oklahoma Indian Photos hijack
This old picture has been broadcast over the internet a jillion times.
But more people have seen this photo of The Abernathy Boys than actually knew the story.
Two brothers from Oklahoma at the ages of nine and five rode horseback from Frederick, OK. to Santa Fe, N.M. Their "free range" escapades continued with such parentless trips to New York City in 1910 to meet Teddy Roosevelt and others.
The Indian motorcycle was purchase in 1913 and they successfully drove it to NYC. This trip they were reported to have ridden the train back to Oklahoma.
The oldest brother Louis graduated the University of Oklahoma here in Norman and spent his adult days as an attorney in Wichita Falls, TX until his death in 1979.
I'd like to claim these brothers as honorary "Cash Boys"...B-)
A Couple More Texas Indian Photos
>
31°47'3.39"N
106°29'20.67"W
Maybe?
Oklahoma Indian Photos hijack
I also noticed that in the very first pic posted at the top of this thread, that the other rider had taken his shoes off. Must've been riding for awhile and needed to rest the dogs.
I was thinking that sitting astride those machines then might have felt like you or I would on the latest hovercraft. But they don't look wild-eyed enough. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that by that time there were a lot of motorbike brands available.
From motorcyclistonline.com:
"By the year 1913 we find 37 different makes of motorcycles being marketed. They were: Harley-Davidson, Indian, A. M. C., Eagle, M. & M., Thor, Black Hawk, Bradley, Yale, Crawford, Dayton, Emblem, DeLuxe, Excelsior, Feilbach Ltd., Henderson, Monarch, Thiem, Iver Johnson, Flying Merkel, Militaire, Minneapolis, Michaelson, M.B., Pierce, Pope, Reading Standard, Schickel, Waverly Medland, Curtiss, N.F.U., Jefferson, Breed, Corson Special, and the Hefelfinger."
When rides were passed down to younger brothers in those days it went like this: "Mom, Jimmy gave me the Hefelfinger!"
The El Paso Indian Dealer
> The 1902 through 1906 El Paso Directories, on-line at Utep, don't show an Indian Dealer that I could find.
As it turns out, the Indian dealer in El Paso was The Allen Arms & Cycle Company. They sold guns, ammunition, bicycles, Indian motorcycles and (it would appear) lots and lots of tires.
Here's the interior of their shop as it appears on Page 31 of the September 2, 1915 issue of "Motor Cycle Illustrated"
Oklahoma Indian Photos hijack
The parents would be in jail and the kids in the hands of Child Protective Services if someone tried this today. Pretty sad state of affairs in my opinion.
>
BTW, after researching these photos, I'm pretty sure I've identifed the man and the woman with the Indian motorcycle in front of Grossblatt's Cash Grocery in El Paso in about 1915 or 1916.
They almost certainly are Nellie Lula Stubblefield Haley (b. 20 Oct 1896 Liberty Hill, TX; d.31 Oct 1972 El Paso, TX) and her husband, Roy Hammock Haley (b. 20 Feb 1891 Llano, TX; d. 31 July 1963 El Paso, TX). They would have been married in 1915 or 1916, based upon what they reported to the census taker later.
(The photos below of Mr. and Mrs. Haley were published in "Terrell County, Texas, Its Past, Its People") I'd guess the date of these later photos was the late 1940's or early 1950's.
An earlier photo of Nellie Lula with a thinner face than appears in the photo with the Indian and looking more like her portrait years later:
