Russia jammed GPS s...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Russia jammed GPS signal during Military exercise with Norway....Interesting

11 Posts
6 Users
0 Reactions
4 Views
(@stlsurveyor)
Posts: 2490
Registered
Topic starter
 

This is interesting. If it is true I am sure the Military learned more from that surprise than any planned war games...

?ÿ

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/14/politics/russia-nato-jamming/index.html

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46178940

 
Posted : 18/11/2018 11:20 am
(@mike-marks)
Posts: 1125
Registered
 

The DOD built & controls GNSS for its precision capabilities; therefore it is a targetable asset.?ÿ This incident is trivial;?ÿ the DOD has degraded or spoofed the GNSS signals since the beginning, most notably Selective Availability (which Clinton ended in 2000) and more recently by theatre denial (moving satellites around), pseudolite activities, and easily implemented jamming devices, either airborne or terrestrial.

I could solder up a powerful GPS jammer which would deny any access to GPS within my sky view, but if it's a war waging situation there'd be a skybird within minutes hitting me hard.

So, all major powers experiment with active degradation of the enemy's positioning technology, but doing so so has become touchy because the ubiquitous use of GNSS in the civilian sector means innocent people?ÿ will die if the service is not 24/7.

Been around since its birth and have witnessed "say what?" incidents near military bases where GPS surveying went south and returned a few minutes later.?ÿ The point is we are all at the mercy of the DOD and if they need to push the button for war reasons our super-goody land surveying gear will become bricks.?ÿ Our Total Stations, etc., would still work fine, we'd still be in business, but we'd have to charge our clients a lot more.

 
Posted : 18/11/2018 1:15 pm
(@a-harris)
Posts: 8761
 

The GPS military spoof on the GPS system was lifted in the summer of 2001 and respoofed after the 9/11 attacks.

While the system was wide open, I was able to get some great results in and out of canopy and super fast, like instantly.

It is a criminal act in America to use any jamming equipment for any FCC signal.

Still, it is common for law enforcement to use jammers to avoid signals being received and sent out and StingRay to intercept cell messages.

Some retail companies have used jammers in their stores to keep people from checking prices using the internet for so called specials on products with apps that will read the barcode on items and producing a list of other prices at other stores.

Signal jamming is done on a daily basis by most every country that has the technology whether it is legal or not. Every country, store, law enforcement agency and DOD and every one else will deny this no matter the case.

0.02

 
Posted : 18/11/2018 3:05 pm
(@va-ls-2867)
Posts: 513
Registered
 

The article I read stated that the jamming affected the civilian side of the GPS network, it had little to no effect on the military side of the signal spectrum.?ÿ?ÿ

 
Posted : 19/11/2018 5:21 am
(@bill93)
Posts: 9834
 

There is some confusion in terminology in this thread.

Jamming is transmitting anything that covers up or disrupts reception of the desired signal. A receiver will not be able to get a solid position reading and will know it.

Spoofing is transmitting a signal that will give the receiver false information, i.e., making a GPS receiver happily think it is somewhere else. This is much more difficult for an adversary to accomplish than jamming, but may give him more advantage than jamming. Current military receivers have provisions for avoiding being spoofed.

Selective Availability was the name of an intentional time jitter in the civilian portion of the GPS signal that degraded position accuracy if you didn't have the military code keys. That is what was turned off early in this century and is still off.?ÿ The keys still allow better accuracy faster, but even without them a civilian receiver does better than it originally did.

 
Posted : 19/11/2018 6:07 am
(@mike-marks)
Posts: 1125
Registered
 
Posted by: Bill93

There is some confusion in terminology in this thread.

Jamming is transmitting anything that covers up or disrupts reception of the desired signal. A receiver will not be able to get a solid position reading and will know it.

Spoofing is transmitting a signal that will give the receiver false information, i.e., making a GPS receiver happily think it is somewhere else. This is much more difficult for an adversary to accomplish than jamming, but may give him more advantage than jamming. Current military receivers have provisions for avoiding being spoofed.

Selective Availability was the name of an intentional time jitter in the civilian portion of the GPS signal that degraded position accuracy if you didn't have the military code keys. That is what was turned off early in this century and is still off.?ÿ The keys still allow better accuracy faster, but even without them a civilian receiver does better than it originally did.

Agreed except I consider Selective Availability was spoofing in that the signal was intentionally degraded for a subset of users (civilians & the enemy without the keycodes).?ÿ The receiver detects no anomalies and happily reports positions that may be off by a football field or so; therefore it is being spoofed, not jammed.

Actually, SA was a simple solution to the problem of not affording the enemy the same accuracy as our forces.?ÿ I had the rare opportunity of using military grade receivers during the dawn of GPS (military base surveys) and they looked exactly like Trimble's original yellow brick/w cowbell batteries *except* it was military green and it had a shielded switch on the back which if activated fried the RAM (ROM?) stuff and turned into a true brick.?ÿ The other oddity was we were assigned an armed corpsman who accompanied us in our daily activities, never let his eyes off the receiver, showed up with it and took it back every?ÿ day, so?ÿ we had no downtime to play with it.?ÿ ?ÿ We couldn't help but notice it acquired satellites more quickly, its autonomous location was much more accurate than our civilian receivers, but when used in translocation & multiple receiver networks, um, not so much better.

I'm sure the DOD has modern secret squirrel stuff much more effective than SA, like theater denial and spoofing technologies, so much so that Gen?ÿ III satellites do not have?ÿ SA time dithering capabilities.?ÿ It's said that everybody gets along in peaceful times, but when the sh*t hits the fan in wartime rest assured the DOD will deny availability to surveyors in local theaters (along with GPS equipped car bombers, etc.).?ÿ Should we worry??ÿ Nope.

 
Posted : 19/11/2018 1:41 pm
(@bill93)
Posts: 9834
 

Posted by: Mike Marks

Agreed except I consider Selective Availability was spoofing in that the signal was intentionally degraded for a subset of users (civilians & the enemy without the keycodes).?ÿ The receiver detects no anomalies and happily reports positions that may be off by a football field or so; therefore it is being spoofed, not jammed.

This is just arguing semantics, but I disagree with that classification.?ÿ Spoofing is the result of an external hostile signal that gives a false answer, not an intentional modification of the real signal that merely degrades the correct answer somewhat.

 
Posted : 19/11/2018 3:05 pm
(@a-harris)
Posts: 8761
 

I would imagine that today's soldier carries a hand held gps similar to a Garman ETrex that is no larger than a cell phone with the appropriate coding and software that will deliver results as good as it gets and is sending information in real time to most anywhere in the world and the capabilities can be turned on and off as necessary to save battery power and prevent being located by the enemy.

perhaps this is so

 
Posted : 19/11/2018 3:23 pm
(@mike-marks)
Posts: 1125
Registered
 
Posted by: Bill93

This is just arguing semantics, but I disagree with that classification.?ÿ Spoofing is the result of an external hostile signal that gives a false answer, not an intentional modification of the real signal that merely degrades the correct answer somewhat.

I'll disagree that arguing semantics is trivial, but after consideration agree SA is in a class of its own in that it's a deliberate degradation *by the provider* of the signal as a defensive measure.

So, semantically, there's 3 active ways GPS signals can be compromised for users:?ÿ ?ÿjamming, spoofing and Selective Availability. SA is not quite spoofing because the provider is degrading the signal, not an enemy.?ÿ I can live with that nomenclature.

 
Posted : 20/11/2018 2:24 pm
(@cptdent)
Posts: 2089
Registered
 
Posted by: A Harris

I would imagine that today's soldier carries a hand held gps similar to a Garman ETrex that is no larger than a cell phone with the appropriate coding and software that will deliver results as good as it gets and is sending information in real time to most anywhere in the world and the capabilities can be turned on and off as necessary to save battery power and prevent being located by the enemy.

perhaps this is so

Nope. Never has been. At least for those on the ground.

Prime example of how it is today. Get yourself one of the really fancy Drones and then get a contract to work on a military base where that drone can save you hours of time.?ÿThen sit back and watch the fun. Get at least a case of pop corn and a equivalent amount of beer. You'll need it.

First, there will be an equipment inspection. OOPS!! There are Chinese components on your drone! Can't use that drone. Got another one?It seems that the software on your drone does some "pre-processing" by sending your data back to China via satellite for analysis and application to later data. In the LONG run, they have all of your data. Filed in China. Of an American Military Installation.

Way back when I chose to wear green everyday, we used to call stuff?ÿ "targeting data". Is this "Much ado about nothing" or a revamp of the "Boy Who Cried Wolf".

I suppose that depends on how close that first round is to the initial target.

?ÿ

 
Posted : 22/11/2018 10:42 am
(@a-harris)
Posts: 8761
 

@ cptdent

this topic is about gps signal blocking, I'm talking about boots on the ground behind enemy lines that locate targets before the drones are deployed.

 
Posted : 22/11/2018 5:05 pm