Shawn Billings, post: 368348, member: 6521 wrote: Mostly I started talking about it to contradict some of the naysaying going on about RTK in general. I couldn't speak to the intricacies of all brands, but I knew this product well enough to articulate some counter points to the ignorant things being said about RTK use in surveying. I would hope that anyone with similar expertise with other systems would chime in when those opportunities arise. Allowing such ignorance to continue does damage to the profession.
Shawn -
The above has a lot to do with why I speak a lot about Trimble, especially the R10s - I see so much bad information that is accepted as "common knowledge" that I feel compelled to dispel it. And I try to help anyone with technical problems when I can. I don't make any secret of the fact that most of my career was in sales, and that several times I too have had a peek "behind the curtain", so to speak, although not at the same level that you have. It's exciting and exhilarating to be even peripherally involved in the development of a new product, and to see the effort by very smart people that goes into it. I've been out of the sales/support/training game for over three years now and have never been happier than I am in my current position in the surveying community - in my quest for a career I was fortunate enough to discover a passion.
Keep up the interesting and informative posts. I'd love to get my hands on one of those systems just to test it, even though there is almost no possibility of our purchasing anything other than Trimble due to the investment we have in hardware, software, training, processes and procedures, etc. I would love to have all of the innovations you've described and their practical application and benefit properly described and demonstrated.
Lee
Only read though the 1st page here but one question does the Javad system run on a windows back end, I could be wrong but i think it does not. All other controllers out there run on some crappy version of window mobile and not to get to far off topic anyone who's ever programmed on a windows plat from knows the nightmare.
1 last funny note oops maybe 2, I'm currently using a Topc PGA-1 with a GRS-1 using TopSurv 8 even since 7 the icon for the radio strength the little radio waves will move in and out as receptions goes to say 50-70% but it always reads 100%. This is the crap u get from Topcon I payed $15k for this system around 08 and it was the demo unit.
Recently had to put it in for repair and rented a leica unit CS20 and GS14 with leica captive.....Well I wasn't captivated I found at least 5 bugs in this system the 2 weeks I used it. Worse one being on point stake out, loose fix and regain but it does not update your distance to staked point must go to main menu, choose stakeout and pick point again.
FL33404RTK, post: 368647, member: 11610 wrote: Only read though the 1st page here but one question does the Javad system run on a windows back end.
Javad's TRIUMPH-LS runs on Windows Embedded Compact 7 which came out in 2011, near the same time as development was start on the TRIUMPH-VS (predecessor to the LS). I think there has been some talk and desire to eventually more to a more current and better OS in the future but it would take a lot of work to accomplish.
Lee D, post: 368528, member: 7971 wrote: Shawn -
The above has a lot to do with why I speak a lot about Trimble, especially the R10s - I see so much bad information that is accepted as "common knowledge" that I feel compelled to dispel it. And I try to help anyone with technical problems when I can. I don't make any secret of the fact that most of my career was in sales, and that several times I too have had a peek "behind the curtain", so to speak, although not at the same level that you have. It's exciting and exhilarating to be even peripherally involved in the development of a new product, and to see the effort by very smart people that goes into it. I've been out of the sales/support/training game for over three years now and have never been happier than I am in my current position in the surveying community - in my quest for a career I was fortunate enough to discover a passion.
Keep up the interesting and informative posts. I'd love to get my hands on one of those systems just to test it, even though there is almost no possibility of our purchasing anything other than Trimble due to the investment we have in hardware, software, training, processes and procedures, etc. I would love to have all of the innovations you've described and their practical application and benefit properly described and demonstrated.
Lee
If I ever get your way we should get together. I'd be happy to demonstrate the system for you. I understand your investment in Trimble. I'd like to hear what an experienced Trimble user thinks of it.
Shawn Billings, post: 368155, member: 6521 wrote: This may turn into a long story. In a recent thread I was asked about my association with Javad Ashjaee. It's a little more complicated (and perhaps interesting) than simply stating that I work for him. I'll explain as best I can and let you decide for yourself, if you care enough one way or another to read this entire post. I will say that I am biased, partly from personal investment in the project and partly from experience with the equipment, so that may be enough for some of you to know what you need to know.
I've been writing for American Surveyor magazine since about 2008. In the Spring of 2013, my editor, Marc Cheves, asked me to go on a trip to San Jose, California, for a product announcement. I had never traveled for the magazine before and was excited at the opportunity. I took my wife and daughter as this would surely be the only time I'd ever get the chance to travel to Silicon Valley. Beyond the travel opportunity, I was most excited that I would get to meet Javad Ashjaee. He has a storied reputation with development of precision GNSS technology dating all the way back to the 1980Ûªs with Trimble. So many of the advancements we have today came from his genius. It would be an understatement to say that I was feeling very insecure as the morning approached for our first meeting. Three days earlier I was needling through briars surrounding a chain link fence corner digging around the concrete base, looking for a 50-year-old number 3 rebar. What was I doing in the audience of a brilliant mind like Javad? I have no formal education. Everything I know has been built off of self-study following a very good high school education and learning from great mentors.
Javad was extremely hospitable. What was supposed to be a three-day trip to the West Coast turned in to a job offer. I politely declined, overwhelmed by the realization that I really didnÛªt have anything to offer. I was working for my dad at the time, and my loyalties were with him in that business. I was, at the time, also much more timid about business ventures and preferred to remain with what I knew as comfortable. Javad modified his request and asked if I would consult for him to develop the software that would run on his latest creation.
Seeing the LS for the first time, I was as skeptical as most were. I peppered him with questions. Why the all-in-one construction (no way to plug and play with a total station ÛÒ no way to raise the antenna overhead)? Why 864 channels with so few satellites comparatively? Wouldn't it be better to use an existing software? No need to reinvent the wheel. Most importantly, "Why are you asking me to help? I'm just a surveyor."
The answers came in time and I was convinced that the all-in-one construction is the future, while 2 meter poles with separate data collectors and rover heads will be the past. Like the ears of the big bad wolf in the story of Goldilocks, the 864 channels are better to hear with. The hardware needs good software. There were so many things he knew he could accomplish in his own software that he would never get from a third party. He and others suggested that I could add my insights to the development of the software and that even if the contribution was small, it would be further along than where it started.The LS didn't actually exist at the time, the components were there, but the finished product had not been completely assembled yet. So I went home with the predecessor to the LS, the Triumph-VS. The VS software was difficult. I could see the effort in the software, but it was woefully inadequate for surveyors. I began writing to him about the philosophy of surveying, what surveyors needed and why. Then I began to recommend features. Javad told me that his team of software engineers was able to deliver results in hours and days instead of weeks and months. He was right. I would endure a frustrating day of testing on Saturday, write about my experience, send them the results and within a few days there would be a new version ready to test. I would test at night by flashlight and on Saturdays. I was compensated for my efforts but most importantly my requests were met with sincere interest. I've been using GNSS since 2000, but there is still quite a bit I don't know. In order to give good recommendations, I had to learn quite a bit as the need would arise. I would say that I'm one of very few land surveyors that really understands localizations/calibrations. I stayed away from them for years because I didn't fully understand them, but I had to immerse myself in the mechanics of localizations so that I could provide better assistance.
In November of 2013, Javad sent my wife and me to Moscow, Russia. Like most of the readers of the message board, I grew up in the Cold War era. I recall the drills hiding under desks as a child in case of a nuclear (nukeular) attack. Now I was sitting across a large board room table from men who grew up in the same era on the other side of the conflict. We talked for days about surveying and the needs of the software. I learned about their families and daily lives too. They are brilliant, every one of them. I love America, and particularly Texas, but I've learned through encounters with foreign nationals (both in the US and abroad) that people are people and all have a very high, intrinsic worth. These men speak Russian natively, but not in their meetings. In the meetings they speak English. They even take notes in English. They have a passion for science and geodesy and a real appreciation for excellence. Early on, before the receiver was released to the public and I was testing, there would be a particularly dysfunctional testing version. In frustration, I would gently chide them and they would respond with intense effort to resolve the issue within a few days, most of the time exceeding expectations.
We had routine conference calls (making allowance for the 8-hour time difference). I'd listen intensely as the long distance call and thick accents were at times challenging to discern. Through this we made a functional software to run on the new hardware. By Spring of 2014, the system was ready (both the LS rover and the new base receiver - the Triumph-2). My testing continued, still going at night by flashlight and on Saturdays. I made a few trips to San Jose to meet with Javad and a few friends, who shall remain anonymous. I've always appreciated the technical support from Carlson Software and Ashtech. No maintenance agreements or contracts, you call and they answer. I also had a very good experience in a similar way from a dealer I consider a personal friend, Mark Silver from Igage. I recommended to Javad that he find a few surveyors that had the skills to provide technical support to this new product similar to these companies. He responded enthusiastically and the so-called 5PLS team was born. I wasn't going to be a part of it, my contributions were almost to an end. I was only in this to carry them a little further than where they were when we met. I keep waiting for that time to come when I'm out of ideas or no longer of service to the project, but it hasn't come yet. The 5PLS team is composed of working surveyors (and one surveying professional engineer) who work in private practice and contract support services to Javad. None of them are employees of Javad GNSS, but are compensated for our time on a contract basis.
Javad later offered the team members sales opportunities. The team members would continue to be independent, but would be compensated by commission for any sales they generated. Javad offers a fixed price on his equipment - no suggested list price with some discount price, just the price. The commission is also fixed. This is a fairly new experience for me. IÛªm truly not a salesman. When I was a kid and the school would have the fundraisers selling cookies, I had two sales: my mother and grandmother. I havenÛªt really found that I need to sell the Triumph-LS. I demonstrate it and offer the best explanation of its operation as I can.
Continued...
Thanks for sharing. In my opinion its your post that keep a site like this going and there need to be more like it. I would suspect that most new forum user or lurkers seek out a site to learn more about equipment trends, and gain others opinions on equipment, best practices etc. Some of the post on here tend to turn out to be a debate on who is the super surveyor. i havent read one of your post that made me think that or mad me think you were pushing a sale, they simply made me want to research more about JAVAD equipment. I dont know what most people use online forums for but I typically use them as a learning tool.
