I'm not entirely certain where to direct this topic, but since it pertains to education I thought this would be an excellent place to begin. My goal is to one day be a professional practicing in Louisiana, Tennessee, or Texas; I understand that the minimum requirements for professional licensure (in Louisiana) are an undergraduate degree in Surveying, or a B.S. with 30 survey course hours accepted by our state board.
I'm very interested in attending Ohio State University for a Master's degree in Geodesy. After reviewing the required topics of study, I believe that there are several courses that would benefit me as a professional in the industry. When I approached the professors working in my department, they both warned that I should avoid something so specific for grad school, and I may be better off avoiding graduate school altogether if I want to be a surveyor. By their counsel, graduate school leaves an applicant for surveying overqualified or overeducated in too narrow of a field. Perhaps I'm missing something, but my limited experiences have demonstrated that we use GPS on an almost daily basis at all firms and tie all of its data to reference datums that most people do not understand.
Based on the information I found in the attached program brochure (cited below), I expect that I'd leave with a great knowledge of the methods used to produce the ellipsoid and geoid models of the Earth, and I'd also gain some advanced mathematical methods and computer programming skills. To eliminate any confusion about the courses I'm specifically interested in, I'm going to list them below.
Geometric Reference Systems
Geovisualization Geometry
Geodesy and Geodynamics
Geospatial Data Structures for Computer Mapping and GIS
Adjustment Computations
Essentials of Numerical Methods
Fundamentals of GPS and Reference Systems
Inertial Navigation/Positioning Analysis
http://www.geodeticscience.org/Program_Brochure.pdf
Finally, I'm raising the question here because I'm not sure where else to direct it - If an applicant entered your firm with the FS passed and a Masters Degree on their resum̩, would you still consider that applicant for employment? I greatly value the input from the professors in my department, but I want to measure their opinions against professionals from the industry before I proceed with any ideas about graduate school. I would greatly appreciate any advice on the matter.
Dan
My only question would be, After receiving a Masters Degree or even a Doctorate Degree, would you still be satisfied and find pleasure in going in the field and diggin' up monuments for a living or would you find yourself better suited as a professor in a University.
Some jobs have a suggested degree to qualify and most of the best ones do not.
Don't get me wrong, I never advise anyone against furthering their education.
What your pleasure in life would be, that is what is most important for you to consider.
0.02
I'll leave it at this. My first exposure to surveying was at 17 years of age, right before I was eligible to join the Army. I loved it then, and I went right back to it leaving the military to find it was still a pleasure. I love that the job routinely changes, allows me to be outside through the good and the bad weather, and I enjoy the challenge of following someone else's work. When probing pipelines I enjoyed the satisfaction of locating and marking out that line, where I could see something tangible in my long day's work. Boundary surveying as the layman is one of my favorite aspects of the work that I've done. During an internship that I worked this past summer I was able to work side by side with a licensed professional on a semi-daily basis, which was an invaluable experience in my mind. In the short 2 years of actual work experience I've had, I think the only day I regretted being at work was one January when I was sitting in a swamp on an airboat. I frequently joke that I want to be a land surveyor, maritime work just isn't for me.
Perhaps one day I'd want to be a professor, but I want to be self employed at my own firm before I consider teaching.
Dan, there is more to surveying than tramping around outside. I would suggest that you have a chat with the head of surveying school who could broaden your horizon. By all means go forth and get some practical cadastral and engine surveying experience, but perhaps look at geodetic surveying as the long term plan as it will be you more likely to become restless. Any employer worth their salt would have that concern.
The other significant point is that I believe the days of the small and solo firms are fast coming to an end. Mainly because the technology explosion will require surveyors to offer multiple services which requires expensive equipment and specialization which means one or two surveyors will not be able to financially compete to get the meaty survey projects. While here in S OZ the cadastral surveyor is a "protected species" the the growth area is in the fields that require the less qualified button pushers who charge peanuts to do civil works. This fee slashing to just survive has reflected back on the growth of traditional surveying firms, so merges will begin to occur with larger firms able to raise capital and compete out of the mire rut for larger more profitable surveying projects. Fortunately it is around 45 years since I graduated from uni and will be moving towards pulling up stumps one day!
RADU
You do not state that you already have a BS or what it might be. An MS in surveying is generally a follow up to a BS in surveying or a very related degree.
With BS programs scattered around the US why does an LA guy want to go to OH?
BTW, I see no field surveying courses on your list.
Paul in PA
Daniel JD90, post: 343085, member: 9559 wrote: When I approached the professors working in my department, they both warned that I should avoid something so specific for grad school, and I may be better off avoiding graduate school altogether if I want to be a surveyor
Other than "you should consider trading three first and one second round draft picks to move up and take RGIII" that is, quite possibly, the stupidest advice ever given. We work on a lot of state and federal agency jobs that are evaluated on a qualifications basis and have feedback that the degrees on the staff resumes are an important factor in the evaluation process.
Daniel JD90, post: 343085, member: 9559 wrote: If an applicant entered your firm with the FS passed and a Masters Degree on their resum̩, would you still consider that applicant for employment?
They would move directly to the front of the line. I'm wrapping up a control project this week for a transportation agency; my field crew & office staff for the project consists of:
Rodman - BS is Surveying and Mapping
Instrument Operator - BS in Surveying and Mapping
Party Chief - BS in Environmental Engineering (minor in statistics)
Office Project Surveyor - MS in Geodesy
The level of post secondary education (as well as experience) of my staff is precisely the reason I get work like this day in and day out.
EDIT - When I was attending the Geospatial Summit on Improvements to the National Spatial Reference System this spring, the NGS staff mentioned that, as the replacement of NAD83 and NAVD 88 in 2022 approaches, they anticipate having more of openings for geodesists than are currently being supplied by the grad school programs.
James Fleming, post: 343100, member: 136 wrote: Other than "you should consider trading three first and one second round draft picks to move up and take RGIII" that is, quite possibly, the stupidest advice ever given.
LOL!!
I recommend you pursue as much education as you can; that's one thing that will stay with you for the remainder of your life. Also, going for field experience is a necessary and major aspect of qualifying for a professional license in any state in the U.S. If you are more interested in the concept of surveying whether it be boundaries, geodesy, hydrography, etc., than in what you are going to be paid; it sounds like you're already hooked. You already are a surveyor in the process of getting more education, training, and experience. A Master's degree will always be helpful for your career, but you'll need a Ph.D. to qualify for a tenure-track professorship. Some individuals make their fortunes first, then return for their doctorates in order to then enter academia for the remainder of their lives. Stick with the education. Eventually you'll change from being a surveyor to become a Surveyor.
By the way, ... LSU offers Master's and Ph.D.s in Engineering Science with an emphasis in Geodesy.
Paul in PA, post: 343099, member: 236 wrote: You do not state that you already have a BS or what it might be. An MS in surveying is generally a follow up to a BS in surveying or a very related degree.
With BS programs scattered around the US why does an LA guy want to go to OH?
BTW, I see no field surveying courses on your list.
Paul in PA
My Ohio State degree is 21 years old, but at that time they would accept any STEM (science/technology/engineering/math) degree for the master's program. If he does have a B.S., a master's will take less time than a second bachelor's.
[sarcasm]Hey, what's wrong with Ohio?![/sarcasm] 😀
sarcasm Hey, what's wrong with Ohio?! 😀
Plenty....Go Blue!:snarky:
Grew up in Ann Arbor and we used to say to find Columbus you went south until you smelled it, then east until you stepped in it....
Another way to get involved in surveying is to buy stock in Community Coffee! That way, you'd be involved in surveying ALL OVER Louisiana, Texas, and SW Arkansas!
(You are getting good advice, so, I thot I'd help you along your way!)
Best of luck!
Nate
I was unemployed for quite a while a little over two years ago... based on my experiences, "you're overqualified" is a euphemism for either "we're not willing/able to pay you what you're worth" or "you're too old". I think the biggest fear an employer has in hiring someone for a position that they appear to be overqualified for is that they won't be satisfied and won't stay - which is kind of ridiculous if you look at it objectively, there's no guarantee that anyone will stick regardless of their qualifications. In any case, you can never have too much education, IMHO.
Yes sir, you are correct that I haven't divulged any information about the program I'm studying in. I wanted to preserve the reputation of my department and its professors as I shared private counsel in a public forum. Nonetheless, they've placed me in a spot where I felt it was completely necessary that I seek the sage advice of professionals in the industry I seek employment in. I am currently completing my 5th regular term semester of school, and I expect to graduate from my program in 2018 with a second major in mathematics and a minor in business.
I began considering Ohio State University for graduate school this semester, first because they offer Geodesy, and second because I have a lot of family in the area. The latter is particularly influenced by my brother's proximity to Columbus, Ohio. We both joined the military around 2009, and upon completion of our obligations to the service, we relocated to different regions. Allow me to say again that I chose Ohio State first because of their program in Geodesy, but seeing my brother regularly again and having his support as I transition to another town is an enticing proposition in itself.
Finally, I'll say that I went to work over the summer as an intern with a surveying company, and they were quite satisfied with my work and comprehension of the work they were doing. It took about a month to really understand their workflow, but after that the work was quite enjoyable.
I'm not going to finish my bachelor's for about 2 more years. Ohio State's expectations in that field today include advanced calculus, linear algebra, and a programming language. I thought I'd mentioned my status in school when I was drafting my original post.
Thanks everyone for the outstanding advice! My apologies for neglecting to mention I'm still in school as an undergraduate student. I just began seriously planning for grad school, and that entails a few major adjustments to my course scheduling for the next few semesters. The advice here confirmed my initial ideas about the idea.
