Go where you want. There isn't much local content in any program that I know of, and the PS exam has a national scope anyway. Even in MA you will need some rudimentary PLSS knoledge. You can always take that one local class when you get back.
@protracted This is a brilliant idea. Having the actual application form and instructions will definitely help in charting his path. In Mass. if you are applying under the 4 year degree path, yes ABET accreditation is required. If you apply under the experience plus education path, you may get by with non-ABET coursework, but you will have an easier time with ABET accreditation.
As far as studying in the state you wish to be licensed - I don't think it is super-important. The legal courses at U-Maine were geared towards Maine, but more as a convenience than as training to specifically be licensed in Maine. In other words, the knowledge gained goes far beyond the state lines. Our classes were rather short on Public Lands Survey System training, so if you want to be licensed out west, a western college would probably serve you better.
I take surveying classes at Santa Rosa Junior College, in Santa Rosa, California (northern California). Like you, I prefer in-person classes. The survey certificate is a one-year program. Many students also complete the civil engineering certificate, making it a total of two years. All in class, hands on. Very dedicated program coordinator. The area is beautiful wine country.?ÿDownside of Santa Rosa is cost of living. A room in an apartment or house will cost you about $700-$900 a month, and that's just a room.
https://appliedtechnology.santarosa.edu/surveying-tech-courses
If you were looking for a 4-year program, Fresno State has a well-regarded geomatics program. CA State university tuitions for out of state students are generally high, but you could look into the requirements of in-state residency.
https://www.fresnostate.edu/engineering/civil-geomatics/geomatics/
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Make sure your courses are ABET and will be counting toward a complete degree.
Never deny yourself the education available to you no matter the source.
ABET is double edged sword. To maintain ABET accreditation, the instructors must go through a lengthy administrative process for even minor changes to the course design. ABET for surveyors often can be viewed as an engineering degree with a little bit of survey thrown in. For instance, ETSU's degree had one course on real estate law but required survey students to complete math courses up to Calc III and matrix algebra. The instructors wanted more law, tree ID, drafting, coding, etc, but ABET held them hostage.
Is the Mass Regs course required to sit for the Mass exam??ÿ If so, is that something you can take online, or at a later date??ÿ Sounds like you want to go out west, so maybe you should.?ÿ
I don't think the Mass BOR would look down on a surveying degree or certificate from another state.?ÿ But when I sat they'd have been thrilled with Surveying 101, so not sure what it's like now.
As far as working at a company where it's been, "extremely unhealthy", GTFO now.?ÿ Or at least after the virus stuff is over.?ÿ There are plenty of companies all over Mass hiring.?ÿ No one should stay somewhere with a bad environment if they can help it.
Another great piece of advice. I have reviewed the link that @paul-in-pa shared and thats was a huge help, turns out i had seen the table that specifies the range of options to your pls but I hadn't seen the entire doc so, its very helpful. That said the one thing I hadn't paid much attention to before is now, possibly my biggest concern/obstacle. Up until recently I thought the experience I had was going be close to what I needed, in fact the "professionals" in my office were the ones who had led me to believe my experience was close to what I would need to be able to sit for the SIT, however this "responsibility charge" was not really on my or any else's radar and definitely is a concern. For starters its not very clear on the application from the link or from reading what I could find about it on this forum. It sounds to me like by certain "qualifications/definitions" I would argue I have at lest a few years of "responsibility charge" but by other definitions/qualifications I would argue I dont have any. So thats one thing that will require some additional research. In any event, thank you @murphy, i love this idea, hopefully I can get in contact with some professors.
When you say "there are no surveyors only on the mass board" are you saying that that there are no surveyors only? And are you suggesting they may be more biased towards the ABET accreditation criteria because by the sounds of it its more engineer/math heavy?
Is there a specific reason you say finding work out west may be easier? I would agree the weather is a huge attraction, I just love the terrain and wide open spaces, and especially the parks! Thanks Dave
I was looking into both of these options just the other day, Thanks. Fresno sounds like a pretty exciting place to move actually, but the Santa Rosa sounds smaller and much closer to what I would want to do, and the location!! PCH through that area is one of my favorite places ever! Either way thanks for the info buddy!
Thanks so much for your support! Seriously, sometimes I wonder if i am making a wise decision by leaving a job that has been so reliable for so long but the reality has been, thats is as unhealthy as it has been positive. In any event its good to hear the support, and thanks.
In case anyone didn't see one of the responses, this "responsibility charge" is confusing and I feel like i could argue I have 4 years or none depending on whose definition I went by.
Is anyone around here from Nevada area? I assume there is lots of work in the vegas area, or will be again once this pandemic moves out.
@meansealevel There is a lot of work out here. A lot of construction. A lot of development. Not an excess of surveyors.
Union wages are outstanding. Not everyone is in or required to be in a union.
And California doesn't require a four year degree and has no continuing education requirements.
The test , however is really tough.
We have it all: metes and bounds, PLSS, Ranchos, subdivisions, minor subdivisions, water boundaries (riparian and coastal), mountains, valleys, desert, plains, urban, suburban, rural, and ... whatever you can think of.
Currently the California Department of Transportation (Caltrans) is hiring in southern California. There's a mention of it on this board recently.
Responsible charge: This is a tough one, but generally speaking, if you don't have education background it will take a couple years anyway (maybe more) of experience before a board would consider you in responsible charge of anything.?ÿ With education background it might take only a couple months.?ÿ It takes awhile through either employer mentors or professors to learn the basics of what is going on.?ÿ Much longer than the time it takes to learn to setup and turn angles, or operate the computer program in the office.?ÿ Can't really be in responsible charge of anything until you gain some of the underlying knowledge.?ÿ On the other hand, it doesn't mean you are making all (or any) final decisions.?ÿ If that were the case, you wouldn't be under responsible charge of the licensed surveyor (hence, the experience wouldn't count at all).
It's a good idea to keep a journal and enter interesting jobs you have worked on, and what your responsibilities were on those jobs.?ÿ Never too late to start, you can fill in what you remember of past jobs.?ÿ When applying for the license you put down how many months/years you claim for a certain type of responsible charge and describe in detail one or two of those types of jobs, and employer at the time must sign and agree with your description.?ÿ So, make sure if you leave it is on good terms.?ÿ You might even write up something of your time there and give it to principal for review before you leave.?ÿ Get them to sign off on it now so you have it in your records if they are not available for some reason when you apply a few years down the road.?ÿ In addition, some States have a requirement that a certain percentage be in boundary work (50% in NY if I recall).
As far as ABET or not.?ÿ ABET does not control curriculum but they do have general guidelines, the college administrations have more control over that.?ÿ The reason for so much math and not much in the way of specific courses is usually financial.?ÿ Because there are so few surveying students, it is tough to make courses that only they would take.?ÿ We need to include as many as possible that students other than surveying would also take.?ÿ Engineering is generally used as well because of close ties with that discipline. If courses are not ABET they should at least be regionally accredited if you expect anyone other than very local to the courses to accept them for transfer or credit for a license.?ÿ Usually the certificate courses and programs are very difficult to get recognized anywhere other than locally, even though they might be some of the best education you get.?ÿ For a 2 year certificate in one State you might get a semester worth of credit entering a 2 year ABET program in some other State, or a year credit applying for license.?ÿ Can be disappointing. On the other hand, even a certificate can be seen by a board to help trigger responsible charge in your experience part of the application, and the level 3 or 4 survey technician certifications can also help with that.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
Don't worry about the ABET. Even though many states make an ABET approved degree the clearest path towards a license they give the boards the option of approving alternative education. The vast majority of boards will except classes/degrees from any accredited institution. A few are picky about the specific classes though.
Thats very helpful thank you so much. Can ordinary "land survey experience" and "responsible charge" overlap?
Sure. You just have to make sure it's clear in your application. You might work exclusively in the field for a year in training, then become an instrument tech with a certain level of responsible charge for the next year. During that year maybe you start spending 50% of your time in the office in training on that aspect. So, that second year you would claim 50% of the year experience in responsible charge, 50% not. Then maybe the third year it's still 50/50, but now you have a level of responsible charge both in field and office so claim a full year responsible charge. The boards want to see this sort of progression in an application.
