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HDS Laser Scanners…IN THE RAIN????
dave-karoly replied 7 years, 3 months ago 14 Members · 34 Replies
[USER=11649]@Ryan M. Rezzelle[/USER]
I cant find the demo data from the hose on the scanner, I did see the data last year, its excellent considering its has a garden hose dumping water on it.
Looks like its going to thunderstorm on Wednesday morning, ill set my scanner up in front of my office and post my findings.
Is there something specific you would like to see? non filtered data? with MPF turned on?
Eric
Thank you for your offer. I have seen the Scanner with the hose on it. The Scanner moved and appeared to collect data.
I have asked to see the data from multiple reps to no avail. I look forward to your findings.
Regards,
Mike FalkPS. Please give Ray and Bernie my regards.
Hi all!
I only intermittently check this board, so if anyone needs anything in real time, please feel free to contact me at [EMAIL][email protected][/EMAIL] or [EMAIL][email protected][/EMAIL] or if anyone sees that I am not being responsive to anyone else, feel free to write me.
I’m a big fella…when I get moving around, the crickets usually stop 🙂 I’m always happy to provide data, especially for this discussion.
Also, If anyone wants to see this in person, I would be happy to try and help arrange it (either here in KC or with a local Leica rep to you). However, what I have found is that dumping a water bottle over the scanner is unrealistic. Placing it in the rain and hitting scan is more effective and realistic demonstrative tool.
FROM MIKE FALK (previously):
Please provide unedited data images of data collected in a downpour. As someone said above “Reflection, refraction, and diffraction have been principles of physics that would happen in the rain” And, not just the water on the lens. The water in the air.
RESPONSE FROM ONE OF LEICA’S ENGINEERS:
When we are scanning in the rain, essentially the Wave Form Digitizer is ‘flagging’ these points in the air as suspect due to the characteristics of the return laser signal. The Wave Form Digitizer is similar technology as multi-return sensing with aerial LiDAR mapping. When firing a laser up to 1,000,000 points per second, there is going to be points hitting rain as well as points actually getting through to there intended ‘target’. I have run so many tests on this subject and compared to survey control and it always is within acceptable tolerances that are universally accepted in the surveying community.
I know that there will always be doubters, but I believe in this technology. I set up my 1.000m NIST certified artifact today for better point tracking at different distances. We had a heck of a thunderstorm today and I utilized the storm to do some scanning.
Here is the video I made of the scanning capture today:
[MEDIA=youtube]-gZzO_s6p38[/MEDIA]Here is the raw data set from today (GOOGLE DRIVE SHARED LINK):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzajlelU_30peU55azNCTlRsXzQ/view?usp=sharingHere is the original post about weather durability (LinkedIn):
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/weather-durability-leica-laser-scanners-get-now-ryan-rezzelleHere is the raw data from that scan (IL IAI at Naperville Conference Center) (GOOGLE DRIVE SHARED LINK):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzajlelU_30pZHl3R1FLZlF5NXc/view?usp=sharingHere is the photo showing the noise directly above the scanner today in a cutaway lane layer I made for my targets:
It is more than was presented in my original post, but still very little noise considering the volume of rain and how these used to look in the pre-mixed pixel filtration days!Again, another of the big concerns was with the possible refraction. I scanned my NIST traceable target (1.000m) from 43+ meters and achieved 0.999m in my data return. I scanned the same target at 25+ meters and achieved 1.000m in my data return. From the greater distance, the .001m or 1mm can be attributed to any of the factors that affect terrestrial laser scanning upon which we base our stated error of 3mm-cubed at 50m. All-in-all, I think our engineer’s points hold up…
Also, as an aside…this would have been much easier for me if I was remotely controlling the scanner. Operating the user interface in the rain is difficult because of the amount of water on everything. So all things considered, the data rocks, but the interface is more difficult to fine-pick target points because of water. An iPad out of the rain solves that for you too.
The bottom line for this discussion is that you currently have 2 data sets featuring the Leica P40 scanning in the rain. The IL IAI set is only a single scan station…the others were from inside the facility and not relevant to our discussion.
Please download the data…If there are any questions, please let me know…
Thanks and take care!
RyanRyan
Was the MS50 collecting data with the hose turned on?
Mike,
Are you referring to Thadd from page one of this string?
Thadd said:
One of the sales reps took the scanner all over the country. He ran a garden hose over it while scanning and somehow it figured out what was good and what was bad.
Or is it this video from YouTube?
[MEDIA=youtube]z5kB_ezdg-U[/MEDIA]
Referring to Thadd, he said the garden hose was used while the data was being collected, so I guess yes? As for the video, that is a water exposure stress test done verifying the IP65 rating on the instrument. The laser housing isn’t spinning so I will assume this was a static test. The video is testing the hardware, the mixed pixel filtration I’ve mentioned in reference to the Px-line of 3-D laser scanners is a firmware solution.
Ryan
Ryan
Why does your picture only show noise from the rain above the scanner? Do you have the photo overlay for your scans?
Mike,
The snapshot is of the raw data, there is only noise above the scanner and in the general vicinity of the scanner because that’s the only place that there is noise. What you see is straight from the instrument, so there is noise where there is noise and the rest was handled by the discretion of the instrument.
The firmware tools that are discerning the good from the bad are quite powerful. The Wave Form Digitizer is only effective at 1m or greater, so that could be some of the reason.
I think the takeaway is the amazing data.
The raw scan file is available and I am currently uploading the PTS files for each so anyone with most any software can view the data. I welcome you to inspect the files on your own or wait for a rainy day and invite someone from Leica over to play and witness it all first hand.
There was no canopy over the area…the video showed the rain falling effectively across the whole area and as requested, here is the overhead view as well. Of course there are now leaves on the trees, but this had no effect on the scanned area.
If there are any other questions, feel free to post.
Thanks to all for the engagement on this topic! I think this is one of the most amazing aspects of our product line and I have appreciated the opportunity to dicsuss it. This isn’t my market segment…I am involved as a public safety/forensics rep…that is why this (weather durability; realiable survey grade measurements) is a critical aspect for me. On a rainy day, you don’t get to choose where you work your crime scenes.
Take care all!
RyanHere’s the link to the Google Drive site containing the PTX from the IL IAI scan:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzajlelU_30pNXRVRGZtLTN0bmM
And the most recent Scannin’ in the Rain scans…this past Monday:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzajlelU_30pWTExaHV6WnNQd0U
These are PTX files for more open source access for those that do not have a way to import Leica raw scan files.
Thanks and take care!
RyanThey commented in open forum, but I blocked out their names because I didn’t specifically get their permission to re-post. But again, I wanted to share that this isn’t just me. Folks are actively scanning in the elements and one of the main driving reasons in the CSI industry is the need to do things now…crime scenes are transient…ever changing. Fast, effective, and nothing barring the scanning process.
OK, Did my scans. Only thing that i noticed that was out of place was the missing data on our parking lot. We had a crazy thunderstorm roll through today and the parking lot had standing water on it.
PM me if anyone wants the raw scans.
Thanks Eric! The data looks awesome! I had the same effect on my pavement…it was raining so hard there was constantly a coating of standing water, albeit a thin layer…but it was still enough to drop most of the laser return from the pavement.
I am of the opinion that your data set looks amazing given the capture conditions. I used Leica products for 6 years prior to working for them. I work for Leica because I believe in their products and I think between my data set and yours, we have answered the series of questions re: scanning in the rain.
What do you think?
Take care all!!
RyanHi all,
I have the data sets I had made available above offline if anyone needs them. They were occupying a big chunk of my Google Drive space and I figured anyone who wants them would have downloaded them by now….and there are still plenty of images above to discern the results of the scans in the rain. I’ve done a half a dozen more scans in the rain from sprinkles through blazing downpours and sleety messes….the P-Line of Leica scanners crushes it every time.
Thanks and I hope you all are well….Happy New Year and Happy Scanning!!
Ryan
I’m not really inclined to scan in the rain even if I can.
We turned down the last incident this year because it was raining and snowing. It’s not just the precipitation, it’s that I have to carry an extremely expensive piece of equipment over bare, slippery, saturated ground not to mention setting up the accessories.
Our scanner is a Leica PS40 (a P40 with a red sticker marked “PS40”). PS stands for public safety.
The PS40 is pretty amazing, the colors are much better than before, it really looks like a 3D photo. We have a proposed quarry to scan. There is a 1:1 dozer track to the top. So the thought is put the C10 at risk but the PS40 is so much better, more data, better data, better contrast, etc. The medium density target all scan with high resolution HD photos is about the same time-wise but the data is better overall. The scan time is 5 minutes faster than the C10 but the photos take longer to get the best photos.
Leica says it’ll do 122F but that is limited in reality, if you jump out of the air conditioned truck and get it done in under five minutes. We got about two or three hours in at 110 to 115 when it quit working. I can see it if there is an accident on the freeway and you quickly scan only in 15 minutes or so but not serious scanning with photos of scenes like we do. The aluminum housing gets hot then it’s really hot inside. I had to put the box in the backseat with the AC blasting for over an hour to cool it down enough so I could down load the data. I did this while waiting for a static GNSS session to run.
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