HDS Laser Scanners…IN THE RAIN????

[surveyor85]

I use a C10 from Leica and wont scan in the rain. I’m not sure what Leica claims it can or cant do, but I dont see how water on a lens would’t cause some sore of refraction. Makes me to nervous.

[Zoidberg]

Yes, the IP rating is such that the equipment will withstand rain. However the issue is that the laser will actually reflect off of the falling rain. If you’ve ever seen a scan done in the rain or snow, it’s wild! It’s a complete mess! I’m not sure how they could prevent this issue but I guess that’s why I’m not a hardware engineer.

[Thadd]

One of the sales reps took the scanner all over the country. He ran a garden hose over it while scanning and somehow it figured out what was good and what was bad. I was a SPAR when they rolled them out. Very impressive. And there was free beer.
I like the Class I and Class III laser options so I could burn our some retinas. I like the triple exposed images.
I do not like the weight. I do not know if they have a helical mount for mobile. I am still paying for my FARO, so I did not ask. Plus there was a jerk who was all about leica and enjoyed insulting my little FARO. It made me defensive and not in the mood to be excited about leica. Now I can step back with a more sober perspective.

[Richard Davidson]

Have you found that some salespeople will tell you anything? Reflection, refraction, and diffraction have been principles of physics that would happen in the rain.

Yes the Scanner will turn on. The data is lacking.

[Steve Boon]

Several years ago we had a demo and did some experiments with a Riegl scanner. Nice machine, extremely long range scanning. We tried setting up on the bank of a river and scanning a bridge. When we checked the data later we found that we had scan points out in the middle of nowhere. We had gotten laser returns from the mosquitoes, up to several hundred meters away.

[john-putnam]

> Yes, the IP rating is such that the equipment will withstand rain. However the issue is that the laser will actually reflect off of the falling rain. If you’ve ever seen a scan done in the rain or snow, it’s wild! It’s a complete mess! I’m not sure how they could prevent this issue but I guess that’s why I’m not a hardware engineer.

I talked to a rep at Hexagon about the P40. He mentioned that the laser configuration in the P40 allowed the system to ignore returns for rain drops. Something to do with multiple returns and algorithms. I looks nice but I still need to pay off my C10 and get it in the field more.

[dave-karoly]

I think I know who you mean.

[Richard Davidson]

I asked for data sets. They didn’t have any available.

All these garden hose demos, and no available data? Hmmmmm……….

[Ryan M. Rezzelle]

Hi all,

I just concluded 15+ years as a Crime Scene Investigator and I used a Leica ScanStation C10 for the last 5+ of these years. I used that C10 in rain, snow, and all sorts of inclement weather. The data sets were noisy but that noise could be removed and the data was completely usable, visibly pleasing, and sound for measurements. The rain drops would collect on the lens during the photos, but the laser spun fast enough to keep standing drops from causing refraction during the scanning.

I am now with Leica and happened to stumble across this page as I was preparing a blog post on this particular issue with the Leica ScanStation P40. I welcome you to check out the following article on this issue and I would gladly offer the raw data set to anyone who wanted to see it for themselves.

Because this is my first post, I cannot post the link, but please write me at the address below and I will send it to you directly. You can also search for me on LinkedIn and it is my most recent post.

The data was near pristine due to the onboard and import “Mixed Pixel Filtration,” the noise reduction algorithm that is programmed into the scanners and software.

If I can be of any service, please let me know. I am a public safety guy, but when I saw this page, I thought a peek at this article may help clarify the discussion a bit.

Thanks and take care!
Ryan

Ryan M. Rezzelle, MFS, CSCSA
Leica Geosystems
Forensic Account Manager – Midwest Region
[email][email protected][/email]

John Putnam, post: 321179, member: 1188 wrote: > Yes, the IP rating is such that the equipment will withstand rain. However the issue is that the laser will actually reflect off of the falling rain. If you’ve ever seen a scan done in the rain or snow, it’s wild! It’s a complete mess! I’m not sure how they could prevent this issue but I guess that’s why I’m not a hardware engineer.

I talked to a rep at Hexagon about the P40. He mentioned that the laser configuration in the P40 allowed the system to ignore returns for rain drops. Something to do with multiple returns and algorithms. I looks nice but I still need to pay off my C10 and get it in the field more.

[a-harris]

Howdy Ryan and thanks for joining in.

Keep the comments coming as most of us have heard something about scanning.

It is more of a mere interest to a surveyor like me that would probably find only a couple of times to use it in my practice, not really needed on that 10ac ranchette for the new metro family moving to rural America.

After a few posts your ability to upload and share websites will come and we would welcome your input…………

:gammon:

[Ryan M. Rezzelle]

Thanks for the warm welcome! If anyone on the board has any questions about capabilities or at least just uses within forensics or law enforcement, please feel free to share my info. I was 5+ years using all different makes and models of scanners and total stations for scene documentation, so I have a wide knowledge base applied to criminal case use beyond just Leica’s product line.

Thanks and take care!
Ryan
[email][email protected][/email]

A Harris, post: 370146, member: 81 wrote: Howdy Ryan and thanks for joining in.

Keep the comments coming as most of us have heard something about scanning.

It is more of a mere interest to a surveyor like me that would probably find only a couple of times to use it in my practice, not really needed on that 10ac ranchette for the new metro family moving to rural America.

After a few posts your ability to upload and share websites will come and we would welcome your input…………

:gammon:

[Ryan M. Rezzelle]

I know I couldn’t post the link above…but here is the data as it was scanned…100% straight from the instrument. Immediately below is from the far end of the area scanned and below, from the perspective of the scanner, with colors from scanner point colorization.

Any questions…shoot me a line on this board or at [email][email protected][/email]

Thanks!
Ryan

[john-putnam]

Ryan,

Was this with a P40?

[Ryan M. Rezzelle]

Hi John!

It was with a P40 set to “Speed” mode…in speed mode, the scanner is set to collect 1,000,000 points/second, out to 120 meters. The P40 scanner also has a range setting…in “Range” mode, the scanner collects 500,000 points/second, out to 270 meters.

I think I can post links now…here’s the original LinkedIn post:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/weather-durability-leica-laser-scanners-get-now-ryan-rezzelle

Take care!
Ryan

John Putnam, post: 370285, member: 1188 wrote: Ryan,

Was this with a P40?

[Mike Falk]

John Putnam, post: 321179, member: 1188 wrote: > … the P40 allowed the system to ignore returns for rain drops. Something to do with multiple returns and algorithms..

Ryan

Can you elaborate on this? How does the P40 differentiate between rain drops and other forms of water or condensate?

[Ryan M. Rezzelle]

Mike,

When scanning in the rain or snow, with older scanners (C10 for example), we would see noise in the form of a single point in space with nothing within X distance of that lone point. Big picture, the points would appear like a funnel rising up from the scan position. We would ultimately clip these out to end up with a usable data set. It is my understanding that the algorithm on the P40, P30, P16 series scanners is set to disregard lone points without adjacent data at a pre-set spacing. I do not know what the spacing threshold of that algorithm is, however.

What other forms of water are you referring to? Water or condensation on the lens? Prior to beginning any scan, I use a can of compressed air to blow free any water drops on the lens. From there, the exceptionally fast rotational speed of the laser mirror keeps from any additional accumulation.

There may be drops visible on the lens during the photo segment because the lens is moving much slower, but that is purely aesthetics.

Also, when I complete a scan in the rain, or any scene for that matter, I set my known target at distance to include all areas that I am concerned with. At present, I use a 1.000 meter NIST calibrated target to performance check my data set within each scan. I can tell you I’ve scanned in a wide variety of weather conditions and my data checks against my calibrated knowns have never failed, come rain, snow, or any other adverse condition.

I hope this is helpful.

Thanks,
Ryan

QUOTE=”Mike Falk, post: 370400, member: 442″]Ryan

Can you elaborate on this? How does the P40 differentiate between rain drops and other forms of water or condensate?

[Mike Falk]

Ryan M. Rezzelle, post: 370413, member: 11649 wrote: …It is my understanding that the algorithm on the P40, P30, P16 series scanners is set to disregard lone points without adjacent data at a pre-set spacing. I do not know what the spacing threshold of that algorithm is, …

Please provide unedited data images of data collected in a downpour. As someone said above “Reflection, refraction, and diffraction have been principles of physics that would happen in the rain”

And, not just the water on the lens. The water in the air.

[Mike Falk]

Crickets

[Johnson5144]

Ryan has made it clear he works for Leica Geosystems, so why not contact him directly via email (or another Leica HDS rep) to make your request instead of assuming he would check back into a message board on a regular basis to see your request?

[Mike Falk]

Johnson5144, post: 373080, member: 7149 wrote: Ryan has made it clear he works for Leica Geosystems, so why not contact him directly via email (or another Leica HDS rep) to make your request instead of assuming he would check back into a message board on a regular basis to see your request?

I have heard other employees of the same company make the same claim. I have made the same request to them: “Can you provide samples of data taken in rainstorms?” I have always gotten the same non response.

Crickets.