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(@shawn-billings)
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Math Teacher,
would you mind sharing a bit about yourself. You appear to be a classroom teacher from your posts. You also appear to have a very keen mind for survey math (perhaps better than many of us!). You have an interest in surveying - is it because you enjoy the practical application of mathematics or do you have experience in surveying or come from a surveying lineage?

I think it's great that you are here.

Shawn

 
Posted : December 29, 2014 4:14 pm
(@mathteacher)
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Sorry to be so late in replying. I just discovered your post.

I don't come from a surveying background, but I've been intrigued by the work and the professionals who perform it for many years. Such a combination of intelligence and physical dexterity isn't required in many fields and I admire people who have that combination of skills.

I earned my math degree in 1967 (no, that's not a typo) and I've been using that degree in one way or another ever since. The first 26 years were with a large insurance holding company, followed by four years with a clinical trials organization, and now by 14 years as a mathematics teacher. Until teaching calculus rekindled my interest in applications to the physical world, my real-world experience was in probability, statistics, econometrics, and enormous computer systems installations.

I've been studying geodesy and surveying mathematics off and on and hit or miss for ten years or so. It's been a real piece-meal effort that relies on 100-year-old textbooks, used book store purchases, the internet, and NGS publications.

LDPs are my real love. To learn the ins and outs of these projections, I used James Stem's handbook, the Wisconsin county LDPs, and a lot of trial and error. I now have Lambert projections in an Excel workbook, complete with forward and inverse computations, but it is far from professional grade software. XYHT published my only public work on the topic on their web site on December 4. It's somewhat different from the normal articles on LDPs, so you might find it interesting.

Otherwise, there's not much to tell. I'm an old man who is a life-long learner and a math nerd from birth.

Oh, and I really appreciate you guys tolerating me on this board. Thanks!

 
Posted : December 30, 2014 4:19 pm
(@shawn-billings)
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thank you so much for sharing that. and thank you for participating here. it is very interesting that you had such a long career outside of education before becoming a teacher. I am sure that your students must be very blessed to have that perspective in the classroom.

I'll look up your article with interest.

 
Posted : December 30, 2014 4:27 pm
(@paul-in-pa)
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Math Teacher, Where In North Carolina?

My brother lives in Forest City and three nieces near Charlotte.

Use the following link to download older texts.

https://archive.org/search.php?query=surveying%20AND%20collection%3Aamericana

I would suggest Chuck Ghilani's texts for the latest stuff. "Elementary Surveying" and "Adjustment Computations".

The following link is to Penn State Wilkes-Barre's website, "Free Goodies" for educational use. The first 4 listed programs come with Ghilani's books, which I used at NJIT. I have used 3 of the 4 programs.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/cdg3/free.htm

Paul in PA

 
Posted : December 30, 2014 5:03 pm
(@mathteacher)
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Math Teacher, Where In North Carolina?

Thanks, Paul. I have Dr. Ghilani's text, the 12th edition and I use the Penn State web site often. I didn't have the other site, though.

I teach in Guilford County, though not for much longer. I'm retiring on February 1 of next year and I'm going to miss it. But the fact is that I don't have the energy to continue. My kids are fantastic, I love math and teaching math, but I'm tired.

We have family in Charlotte and Gastonia who we hope to visit before next year. Hope you get to see all of your family as well.

 
Posted : December 30, 2014 5:16 pm
(@paul-in-pa)
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Math Teacher, Where In North Carolina?

I have 3 editions of "Elementary Surveying"
9th Edition, Wolf & Brinker, University of Wisconsin-Madison correspondence course
10th Edition, Wolf & Ghilani, came with 1.2 floppy DOS programs, used for NJIT course
11th Edition, Wolf & Ghilani, came with a CD

So you should have a CD with your 12th Edition.

My brother has a son in Gainesville and my wife has a niece in Orlando. We've been to Orlando twice for high school graduations and some college graduations will be coming up. My sister lives 1 hour South of Charlotte in SC, her 2 daughters and my brother's daughter live in Charlotte area. When we drove to Orlando we stopped in Charlotte to see some new babies on the way South, but missed hooking up as we went through Gainesville and stayed in Forest City coming home. It is a long days drive but we really enjoy the Cumberland Valley and stay away from 95.

Paul in PA

 
Posted : December 31, 2014 5:49 am
(@mathteacher)
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Math Teacher, Where In North Carolina?

It's actually the 11th edition, a used book store purchase that was cheaper because the cd was missing. I downloaded Dr. Ghilani's Wolfpack software, though, and comparing his answers with my homegrown spreadsheet stuff was invaluable for learning. Everybody should adjust a traverse by hand or spreadsheet at least once.

As an aside, I tell my students that they live in the greatest age ever for learning. The internet has opened virtually every subject to virtually anyone who wants to learn. Every professional should be dealing with a more knowledgeable clientele, but that doesn't seem to be the case generally with surveyors yet.

Thanks again for the learning resource. If you, or anyone else, want to contact me off the board, email me at spc3200@gmail.com.

 
Posted : December 31, 2014 6:45 am
(@mathteacher)
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Well, yes, it was an interesting ride. My first year as a teacher paid less than the last bonus I earned at the insurance holding company. My earlier students benefitted from my corporate life more than my later ones, considering that my experience rapidly became outdated, but I could talk to parents effectively because of that experience.

You guys are getting the product of today's educational system in the workforce. My son, an industrial plant manager, asks me often, "Dad, what are you teaching them? They're ignorant and don't want to work."

I'd be interested in stories, good and bad, about new hires in their late teens and early twenties. Hopefully, there are some success stories.

 
Posted : December 31, 2014 9:26 am
(@mark-chain)
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So many of the people we encounter tend to think of us as some kind of laborer or subengineer. It's nice to see some people, like you and Bill93 of higher education that can also appreciate some of the real challenges that a land surveyor faces. I agree with the others that we appreciate your contributions to this forum.

 
Posted : December 31, 2014 9:54 am
(@andykubiak)
Posts: 29
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I'm studying geodesy here at the University of New Brunswick. You may find some of the dozens of free pdfs at the two below links interesting:

Lecture Notes
Technical Reports

All the best

 
Posted : December 31, 2014 10:00 am
(@mathteacher)
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Thank you. I'm amazed at what seems to be a lack of respect for surveyors. Your job requires intelligence, physical endurance and ability, the ability to keep up with the latest technology, and a ton of understanding and communications ability.

Not many people can handle that load. My hat's off to those who can.

 
Posted : December 31, 2014 10:19 am
(@mathteacher)
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Indeed I will! Thanks!

I couldn't help but notice the reference to Wang 7000, 1973. Our first electronic calculators in the insurance holding company were Wang. Four keypads hooked to a central brain that replaced Monroe calculating machines. An Wang and his son were the subjects of many business articles.

My students are incredulous when I tell them that I earned a math degree before handheld calculators were invented.

 
Posted : December 31, 2014 10:28 am
(@mathteacher)
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lol. Wang jokes came daily in our office. We'd be fired today for some of the things we said.

But those machines were incredibly productive. Their ultimate demise was at the hands of a massive mainframe system that automated the calculations done by clerical employees, not hardware failure.

I admire your writing ability and appreciate the encouragement.

 
Posted : December 31, 2014 12:28 pm
(@stephen-johnson)
Posts: 2342
 

> Sorry to be so late in replying. I just discovered your post.
>
> I don't come from a surveying background, but I've been intrigued by the work and the professionals who perform it for many years. Such a combination of intelligence and physical dexterity isn't required in many fields and I admire people who have that combination of skills.
>
> I earned my math degree in 1967 (no, that's not a typo) and I've been using that degree in one way or another ever since. The first 26 years were with a large insurance holding company, followed by four years with a clinical trials organization, and now by 14 years as a mathematics teacher. Until teaching calculus rekindled my interest in applications to the physical world, my real-world experience was in probability, statistics, econometrics, and enormous computer systems installations.
>
> I've been studying geodesy and surveying mathematics off and on and hit or miss for ten years or so. It's been a real piece-meal effort that relies on 100-year-old textbooks, used book store purchases, the internet, and NGS publications.
>
> LDPs are my real love. To learn the ins and outs of these projections, I used James Stem's handbook, the Wisconsin county LDPs, and a lot of trial and error. I now have Lambert projections in an Excel workbook, complete with forward and inverse computations, but it is far from professional grade software. XYHT published my only public work on the topic on their web site on December 4. It's somewhat different from the normal articles on LDPs, so you might find it interesting.
>
> Otherwise, there's not much to tell. I'm an old man who is a life-long learner and a math nerd from birth.
>
> Oh, and I really appreciate you guys tolerating me on this board. Thanks!

We like math nerds here. I used to work with a surveyor who was a math major (Rice '75±)and a L@#$er.

My dad taught him self geometry and trig. I have the books he used.

B-)

 
Posted : January 5, 2015 12:15 pm
(@mathteacher)
Posts: 2081
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Thank you, Stephen. I like surveyors as well. The work that you guys do is amazing to me. The world could not function without you.

 
Posted : January 5, 2015 1:19 pm
(@stephen-johnson)
Posts: 2342
 

I have a good one for you.

It is known as the "Ice Cream Cone" problem

Given:

Arc length = 1 mile
Tangent Length = 1 mile

Find:
Radius
Delta
Chord

A hint is in the name.

B-)

I took me 2 hours to solve the first time. Back about 1982. The surveyor who gave it to me was shocked that I solved it.

Think simultaneous equations.

The last time I worked it, about 18 years ago, it took 45 minutes.

Somewhere I wrote down the answer. It would take longer to find than to recalculate the problem.

B-)

 
Posted : January 6, 2015 11:48 am