I bought an electric car for going back and forth to work a few weeks ago and I absolutely love it.?ÿ That car isn't the point of this post, but, it has been a few weeks and I no longer feel that I have to start out with "Hi my name is Norm and I bought an electric car .."?ÿ A couple of things that I have found out in the process, the residual of an EV is crap, they all fall through the floor after purchase, for example mine is a 2016 BMW i3 with every option for 20K and it was a bit over 51K new.?ÿ It is also a certified BMW preowned as well.?ÿ They are just so cheap.?ÿ Now that I have had it for a while, I can tell you that my entire weeks commute (if I go no where else) is $2.50 in power.?ÿ It is replacing an Audi S4 cab that sucked fuel like it was a gift.?ÿ The little car has a back up on board generator that really is sized a bit small, however, for commuting it is fine.?ÿ I still have the Audi for sunny days.
The car has me thinking about the coming electric vans and there are a few as well as the Rivian truck and SUV.?ÿ My curmudgeon side was not even considering a look at them and internally I was saying give them a few years.?ÿ I am wrong and when the electric Sprinters come out I will invest in them more than likely.?ÿ My diesel Sprinter's have been incredibly reliable, fuel efficient and spacious.?ÿ It appears that they are aiming for 100 miles of EV with a generator kicking in some where.?ÿ We do have a law problem with the definition of EV for a vehicle with a generator though (the generator cannot add more mileage than can be achieved by EV alone.)
These will be interesting times as I see the overly expensive charging stations being added all of the time.?ÿ Hopefully the gouging of these stations will calm down with some competition.?ÿ I do feel like a sixty year old millennial though as I now check the charge level on my phone all the time
I have been following the EV phenomenon as well and I am intrigued. I sorta feel like it is ideally suited for daily commuters who can travel to work and back with a minor side trip for some groceries without having to re-charge. I do not think it is ready for prime time for work vehicles unless you work in a limited area.
The charge times would seem to eliminate them for trips over 270 miles because the charge time to 100% is nearly 13 hours. I have read that with one of the Tesla Superchargers you can get an 80% charge in 15 minutes. But with a petrol car I can fill up and be good for another 500 miles in 5 minutes.
I don't think EV's are for everyone but there is a place for them. I like the looks of the Audi E Tron and the new Porsche & I like the look of the Tesla Model S. The Germans are investing heavily in the EV market. Unfortunately the battery storage capacity is the largest problem.
You commented on the residual and I have not seen that with the Tesla Models. The used ones still seem to be very expensive and command a huge price.
On a much different note, I would be happy just to see these damned stupid idiots who drive large trucks for daily commuters change their habits. I swear it is the dumbest thing to drive a vehicle that costs twice what a small fuel efficient car and gets half the fuel economy of said small car as a commuter.?ÿ
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On a much different note, I would be happy just to see these damned stupid idiots who drive large trucks for daily commuters change their habits. I swear it is the dumbest thing to drive a vehicle that costs twice what a small fuel efficient car and gets half the fuel economy of said small car as a commuter.?ÿ
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That's one I have never understood.?ÿ
The tech that I think you are missing here is that some of the EV's have built in generators that burn liquid dinosaur.?ÿ The Chevy Volt uses one for a combined range of 420 miles and because of that gets some different letters than EV.?ÿ The Volt is just now out of production.?ÿ Now by using tech that lets the generator provide more mileage than the EV portion, makes the platform lose its EV status.?ÿ Sure the EV van can only get you 100 miles and that isn't going to cut it, but, with the on board generator kicking in when you are down to 20% or so, it works.?ÿ How many sites do the crews go to that are within a 40 mile range??ÿ Those are all EV.?ÿ Say the crew works all week fairly close to the office and then on Friday goes a long way away (never a good idea), then no fuel was used until Friday and then just a portion of the tank.
The charging time that you mention is what the industry calls Level 1.?ÿ Level 1 has a more technical definition, but, think of is as 110v supplied to the car and then the car transforms it into DC and then stores it.?ÿ Now Level 2 charging makes it work as it is 220v based and runs at much higher amperage.?ÿ Remember that higher voltage lets the system do more work with the same amperage, so, it is twice the voltage and more amps.?ÿ Level 3 and above are DC solutions that are very expensive to purchase and take the cars' transformer out of the deal and just go directly to the battery.?ÿ Level 2 will easily re-charge the van overnight.?ÿ
Watts=amps*volts and a common Level 2 amperage would be 32, so, 32*240=7680 watts or 7.7 kWt.?ÿ 7.7 is the charging limit through my cars transformer and more modern cars (talking years not decades here) have more robust units.?ÿ The Sprinter is spec'ing a 55 kWt battery or 55/7.7= 7.1 hour charge.?ÿ Tesla does have some additional higher amp solutions as well.?ÿ Any van we (the US) will have for purchase will probably be sized for the main big plug available in the US for residences, which is 50 amps.?ÿ After you apply the 80% rule that leaves 40 amps for charging or the above calc, 40*240=9.6 kWt then 55/9.6= 5.7 hour charge.?ÿ A business could also install a Level 3 which would charge in an hour or so, but, my understanding is that they start at 10K, so, that's a commitment.?ÿ Notice how everyone states their charge time to 80%, that is because it takes a lot longer to get that last 20% regardless of charger.?ÿ The available current to a residential address is going to be an stumbling block for the industry.
You mentioned a job site round trip of 270 miles and if that is your daily commute, then the advantage of an EV is greatly diminished as you said.?ÿ Where we are, south of metro Seattle, it would work great.?ÿ As far as the German's investing heavily in EV, I think that is what the court ordered VW to do after Dieselgate.?ÿ VW is now hinting that they might not ever come back to the US with diesels.
Sorry for the long post.
This is a picture of a 1/5 scale T-Rex that I am printing for a lawn ornament.?ÿ He was added for no real purpose other than I mentioned dinosaurs
I have a 2017 LEAF and have a round trip of 70 miles. I also have a reservered spot that I pay an extra $30 a month but it has an EV charger. Half the time I don't even charge at home now. I think the commercial vehicles will come in in another 10 years.
The commercial EV vans will be here next year.?ÿ Speaking of the Leaf, I thought that I read that the Nissan van was an EV now, not that it is big enough
A kid at work bought a Tesla, nice car, very expensive. He got free power charging, it'll charge in half an hour. He can make it home from Sacramento to Humboldt in one charge but stops halfway to power charge. It has loads of bottom end torque. It drives itself, put the signal on it'll automatically change lanes. It has a screen which is a localized map of the cars around you.
I think electric is the future.?ÿ I believe the big battery break though is still coming.
Electric will be much better, longer lasting and way cheaper to maintain, it's just so much simpler (except for the battery).?ÿ I hope that our next vehicles are electric, but needs to happen next few years or so as current car/truck getting up there in mileage.
I know that the current break through is expected to be solid state batteries, won't that be something.?ÿ I was reading last week that LION Smart a German company was prototyping a 100 kWt battery for my car.?ÿ It is currently 22 kWt, so, a terrific increase.?ÿ I took the time to go to their web site and see what stellar technology they were using.?ÿ It turns out it was 8064 individual 18650 cells like are in the batteries most of the instruments we use, LOL?ÿ Some break through in technology, but, they did achieve some fairly impressive weight to kWt figures.?ÿ So in S6 batteries, that would be 8064/3=2688 batteries at $150 from Trimble is $403,200, so, I hope their pricing is better than Trimble ...
I have never been in a Tesla and would never have given them a second look before owning the i3, now I intrigued by them.?ÿ How fun is "Ludicrous Speed?"?ÿ I just want the button on my Atom, which is actually faster, but, only scares one passenger at a time.
I work from home so i have a 45 second commute.
The 270 mile comment was in reference to the Audi and Jaguar and Tesla in that 270 seems to be the max they can go. Under some conditions they can go to 300 but I seem to notice 270 as being their upper limit.
Electric may be the future but I am not so sure. Battery technology is a long was from where it needs to be and honestly I think it downright sucks for anything other than a daily commuter and go getter type of car. If you go beyond 270 miles....well.... you're screwed.
I hope it comes around as I am intrigued but.............?
Currently I drive 105 Miles one way to work. They have a free charging station for me as an employee for EVs.?ÿ I drive a 2004 V8 tundra, and wish I could figure out the EV scene to my advantage.?ÿ Moving closer is the only answer.?ÿ
Tesla has a a charging station on Hwy 285 in Poncha Springs, middle of nowhere, but close enough to hipster locations in Aspen etc to bridge those gaps.
Starting from mid last year, the Californian company Lime, has electrified two of the big cities in New Zealand with its pay as you go E scooters. This holiday just gone, we just had to partake to see what all the fuss is about. I concluded it was better than walking, but for me being a couple of pounds over my playing weight, anything more than a slight uphill grade required foot assistance, and while I consider I look ok when walking, I concluded it was not possible to ride a scooter and not look like a knob.
OK, have to correct an error in my math, a Trimble S6 powered EV as stated above would not cost $403,200. That figure was arrived at using 3 cells per battery and it is actually 6.?ÿ So a Trimble S6 powered 100 kWt battery pack would be $201,600, which is much better.?ÿ They also use cells that are around 47 grams so 8064*47=379,000g or 379Kg or 834lb, so, the car manufacturers are using lighter casings as well.
I have never been in a Tesla and would never have given them a second look before owning the i3, now I intrigued by them.?ÿ How fun is "Ludicrous Speed?"?ÿ I just want the button on my Atom, which is actually faster, but, only scares one passenger at a time.
There's just so much noise about the Tesla vehicles it makes it difficult to understand an honest review of their car line.?ÿ
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As far as an EV that can go 105 miles each way with a charger at both ends, I think there are a few already.?ÿ The Chevy Bolt, while not very exciting to look at or drive, has an EV range of 238 miles and a full 220v charge time of a little over 9 hours.?ÿ Using their numbers, that is 238/9.3=25.6 miles per hour charged.?ÿ The new model of my BMW i3 is 153 miles and a 6.5 hour level 2 recharge (153/6.5=23.5 miles per hour charged.)?ÿ The BMW is no sports car, but, it is fun to drive as well, especially in town.?ÿ There is the Jaguar I-Pace, Audi E-Tron and the Nissan Leaf and then after looking the rest are kind of marginal for your range.?ÿ Rivian is worth a look, but, they are brand new.
The numbers are telling me that the transformer in the Bolt is 32 amps max.?ÿ In my area a kWt is 0.1072 from my utility (high usage number), so, the Bolt has a 60 kWt battery or $6.43 for a full charge from dead
There's just so much noise about the Tesla vehicles it makes it difficult to understand an honest review of their car line.?ÿ
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I have read a lot about EV's before and after purchasing one and I still know nothing really about Tesla's.?ÿ Tesla's are kind of their own world, connected but separate from the rest.?ÿ When this mania started, I would not consider such an expensive EV, now I would, but it is too late.?ÿ One thing I did find essential in deciding on the BMW was their use of Samsung cells and the fact that they are liquid cooled
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There is a cult like worship of all things Tesla and Elon Musk. It is so bad that I actually hope that company goes bankrupt so the cult will collapse and die. The Tesla fan boys and girls and their slavish devotion is nauseating.
Rival from the east, plus a different way of charging (hot-swap):
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There is the temperature factor, which any of us already knows that temperature limits the available charge.?ÿ I have read several articles on the subject and they parallel what I have found for surveying instrument batteries.?ÿ If I remember correctly batteries are rated at 68?øf and I have found that they suffer a 40%+ loss at freezing.?ÿ That is exactly what the car industry is saying as well.?ÿ Now there is a new factor to add to that, freezing actual hurts battery plates.?ÿ This is from that article:?ÿ
"Many battery users are unaware that consumer-grade lithium-ion batteries cannot be charged below 0?øC (32?øF). Although the pack appears to be charging normally, plating of metallic lithium can occur on the anode during a sub-freezing charge. This is permanent and cannot be removed with cycling. Batteries with lithium plating are more vulnerable to failure if exposed to vibration or other stressful conditions. Advanced chargers (Cadex) prevent charging Li-ion below freezing."
We charge inside, so, not a big factor for us, but, definitely good to know.?ÿ My EV car is a lump of snow in the driveway, until the Seattle area returns to normal.
As soon as they can make an EV that can carry all of my surveying equipment and supplies up a 15-mile unmaintained mountain road, then I might consider one.
As soon as they can make an EV that can carry all of my surveying equipment and supplies up a 15-mile unmaintained mountain road, then I might consider one.
That is an interesting point as the current Sprinter vans are available in 4x4, so, it might be later this year, LOL.?ÿ Our 2 wheel drive Sprinters are impressive for what they are, but, they are no 4x4.?ÿ Our Metris van gets stuck looking at a field, which is more than likely the highway tires that came with it though.?ÿ An EV van still makes more sense for urban surveying though, IMHO.
