This is the most troublesome water heater I have ever owned.
My first house had the original 20 gallon water heater from 1952. No trouble at all except too small. Replaced it with a 40 gallon water heater from a home center. That one never had a lick of trouble over the 10 years or so we owned it.
We replaced the old water heater in this house in about 2005 with a State State Select High Efficiency water heater. They had to replace the pilot assembly three times when it was new because it wouldn't stay lit. This water heater has a pilot assembly which includes the thermocouple; it can't be replaced with a cheap hardware store thermocouple. A couple of years later, the pilot started going out again. So again they replaced something.
It's been working then the pilot went out in September. I couldn't even get it to stay lit at all. That is when I found out I can't just replace the thermocouple, the pilot assembly is $77 plus shipping on-line, ouch. I pulled the burner assembly out and blew the pilot tube out with compressed air. That seemed to solve the problem. It stayed lit until last week. No trouble relighting the pilot, it stayed lit until last night. Wife calls, no hot water, so I talk my daughter through relighting it over the phone because I was out of town on work. It has a piezo lighter but it is really hard to see the pilot through the stupid little window. She held the control down and clicked the lighter 5 times then waited 20 seconds then I had her turn it back to on and the main burner came on. It is still lit, who knows how long.
So I'm about to order the pilot assembly then I thought maybe that isn't it. Maybe it's the control unit or something else. I guess I'll ask State for ideas. It's a stupid water heater, for Gawd's sakes, about as simple as appliances get.
Thanks for listening.
I feel your pain. No water heater problems here (knock wood), but on Saturday I'm going to replace our water softener. I don't like plumbing project in general, but I particularly don't like plumbing projects that require turning off the water to the whole house, because I know that despite all my planning there'll be something that goes wrong and will take hours to fix, during which time my housemates will be grumbling about the lack of water.
While I'm on the subject (sorry for the hijack, Dave), I decided to use Sharkbite flex hoses to connect the new softener because the copper supply and conditioned lines are located right next to a wall. Any tricks I should know about the Sharkbites?
Okay, I'm sure it's just me, but if a water heater says "Damned State Select" on the side, shouldn't that be a clue? Is an exorcism needed?
Clean, measure, and mark the pipe per their instructions. If you don't mark the pipe it is difficult to tell when you've inserted the pipe far enough into the fitting. Make sure you get one of the release tools for the size sharkbite that you're using. You may not need it for the install, but you'll be glad to have it in your toolbox for future work.
Jim,
I second Stephen's comment about the tool for releasing the Sharkbites. They are really easy to work with.
Jimmy
You should install a bypass line around the water softener so you can isolate it and replace it.
Of course the bypass will pipe That fluid mineral stuff Davis calls water directly into your house 🙂
> You should install a bypass line around the water softener so you can isolate it and replace it.
The old installation has a bypass valve, but it's part of the softener control unit, so it'll have to go. The new one has a bypass as well, not quite integral with the control unit but with what appear to be non-standard (and non-threaded) connectors on the softener end:
Cutting in a separate bypass would involve a lot of close-quarters cutting and sweating, so I think I'll probably skip it.
Is this water heater really so great and efficient that you can't bear to get rid of it? About the second time it failed me, it would be heating water at the recycle yard.
Plus one on how hard it is to see the lit pilot light through the inspection window on a State Water Heater.
But, on the other hand, I've had a State heater for about 2 years now with no trouble whatsoever. Could be you just got a lemon.
Sharkbite Connectors
The Sharkbites seem to be pretty good, but I would never put one somewhere I couldn't inspect it for leaks periodically. In other words I wouldn't use them in a wall...
Here Goes.
If you would scale UP all your pipe sizes, say to 0.75 MM, the aesthetic appeal would be greatly improved.
The pipes you are using are the wrong color. They should be a greenish black. In all probability, they aren't.
Also, all those redundant elbows, are causing friction. Longer radius curves will work better.
Best Regards!
🙂
Aloha, Dave: Sorry to hear about your water heater. If you ever decide to change your water heater I'd recomend look into Rinnai brand. They are on demand water heaters. Comes with electronic ignition no pilot burners!! I have five units installed for various monastery buildings over the years. The oldest unit is running flawlessly for about 12 years now. Some minor issues that requires cleaning the air vent etc. It does require Licensed Plumber to installed it if want to claim any warranty. PLS don't qualify:-D I never had a need to claim any warranty yet! Downside...they are not cheap.
Yswami....
I just plumbed in a 3/4" propane gas fitting with my furnace retrofit last year after looking over the Rinnai tankless units!
Are you using "condensing" or "non-condensing" units?
Our only challenge is our groundwater is likely a bit colder than yours, so our
"heat rise" calculations are probably a bit more challenging for a Rinnai.
I've been looking for a good sale on a 98% efficient model every since!
Little beats a reliable hot shower/bath here in the Northwest.
🙂
I think I finally figured out my water heater problem. The wire connection into the orange plastic thing is worn. I found this out accidentally. I touched the wire and "click" it went out. The pilot lights but won't stay lit. So I fiddle with the wire and it stays lit. I put the electrical tape on it to hold it straighter so we can have hot water.
This is the wire that runs from the piezo generator to the igniter tip which lights the pilot. The pilot lights but won't stay lit when gravity bends the wire on the control box side.
So what is that thing? Some kind of fuse? It's not a regular wire connector. A new pilot assembly comes with one but as far as I can tell not the piezo generator.
This photo shows the bent/bad connection at the orange thing (see lower left of photo)...
I'm talking about the orange plastic thing above and to the right of the control box...
I'm going to take a guess and say that it is part of the thermocouple. I never new for sure how they worked, but a quick Google search revealed that the thermocouple tip is heated by the pilot light which creates an electric current which is used to power an electromagnet in the thermostat which keeps the gas to the pilot flowing. Interrupt the current and the electromagnet allows the gas valve to slam shut and kills the pilot light.
Actually, I just took a close look at mine and the thermocouple is one of the small diameter pipes threaded into the bottom of the thermostat. Still though anytime a gas appliance won't stay lit, the thermocouple is a prime suspect.
The thermocouple is the copper wire that goes into the bottom left of the control box. The wire I'm talking about is on the right, it goes to the piezo lighter.. This is a new style sealed unit. It is temperamental.
State is not very forthcoming on information about the small parts. I think the orange thing is just a plug. I would've thought it could be disconnected yet the heater would still work other than there is no other way to light the pilot. As as the wire flexes it clicks off. The funny thing is the sparker sparks inside the burner chamber and the pilot lights but won't stay lit when the button is released unless I straighten the wire.
State says nothing about this anywhere that I can find.
Water heaters have gone from very simple reliable appliances to temperamental nightmares.
There is stuff all over the internet about dealing with the various issues with these new water heaters.
If touching the piezo wire causes the pilot to go out it has to be causing a short or some other malfunction with the thermocouple. What happens if when you initially light the pilot you disconnect and tape both ends of the piezo wire while still holding down the red button and waiting for the thermocouple to warm up. If it's causing a short or electrical disturbance that is affecting the thermocouple this might isolate it while the red button keeps the valve open.
Most gas water heaters use controls made by a couple of companies (Robertshaw, Honeywell, & a few others). Instead of looking for info from State, you may do better by looking at the valve for a manufacturer and model and search for info based on that.
