So my grandmother got tired of paying taxes on land she inherited from her grandfather, so she conveyed her 7/72 interest to me.
There's one pair of lots in the middle of a mess. One surveyor produced a plan based on a fraudulent deed, fortunately it was thrown out. Another surveyor produced a plan based on a boundary line agreement that I was not a part of. There's a 'title examiner' who is claiming ownership of almost everything that is not part of a plan. I am estimating a ton of time to do the work and to find the distant relatives and resolve the title. Even so, our records are fragmented (when a fire takes out all the deeds in 1828, how can you expect to trace anything back further?)
The lots in question may total 8-8.5 acres in 1 acre zoning with no frontage, but perhaps there is a paper road leading to it. Perhaps there is a little frontage on another road as the roadway was widened for development. It's a real mess of a situation and really needs to be registered with the Land Court.
I've been looking at this problem for quite some time and I've just been shaking my head. The title examiner offered me $2k for my interests a few years ago. I countered with $53k and he became very irate.
I am about to go to a Conservation Trust and see what song and dance they can offer. The tax write-off may be more worthwhile than the headaches... plus if this will throw a wrench in the title examiner's gears, I would not feel to bad at all...
It depends on the amount of time and money you can invest to set things straight. If the kiddies are already waiting for new shoes, postpone things if possible. If you have too many nice things already, go for it now and go for it hard.
I would go into supersleuth mode. I would search every possible corner storing information to provide evidence. Simultaneously, I would begin searching down the other 65/72 ownership for help or offering to purchase their share of a pig in a poke.
The Register of Deeds in an adjoining county had a similar situation in her family over a quarter section of land that was homesteaded over 100 years ago. One local relative had continued to rent out the land and pay the taxes then send minor amounts once each year to the known descendants. There were nearly 200 owners plus spouses, former spouses, step-descendants and so on involved. Identifying the property was the simple part. Sorting out the ownership rights was a nightmare. Eventually, she came up with the money to buy everyone else out. Not so much because she wanted the land, but, more because she understands ownership rights and the problems that must be resolved by someone someday. It was sort of like some of the complex surveys we get into. Solving the mess becomes more important than our net profit.
I do enjoy the research and putting together the puzzle. The trouble with the puzzle is there are many missing pieces.
From there, I do not want to follow in the footsteps of the examiner, offering pittances for partial interests. It does not sit right with me, but I don't have the wealth to offer proper amounts to my distant family. I've thought about creating a trust to have everyone convey into so we can divide it after the fact, but I know some of these people. As soon as they are involved, they will try to hire a less expensive surveyor.
Even if I get everything sorted out, it would likely go to court. From there, what is the real value of the land with no access?
There's a reason I keep pushing this one off.
well you could hire a local surveyor to handle this for you 🙂
Or ask for $16,000.....I figure that's about what your roughly 1/10 interest should run, 8 acres at $200K/acre...
But don't let him get away with it!!!!!!! It's gone on a little to long!
I'd spend the time to kick the examiners butt. In Texas, you can't adversely possess against undivided interest, so he'd be out of luck on that front.
What would you do?>Oh and Thadd
You can always get access...maybe not for building purposes, but I'd bet you can find access, or have it adjudicated in the courts.
>offering pittances for partial interests. It does not sit right with me
Why not? If you succeed in getting ownership of it all and sell it for a bundle that makes you feel guilty, you could always give the relatives a more substantial gift.
the title examiner has been doing this for far too long. title abstract should be created by an impartial party and they should be taken away from the lawyers. i'm not saying that surveyors should take this over, but it would better protect the public if we did.
This leads to the most interesting questions in titles:
Is a warranty deed superior to a quitclaim deed? IOW Does a warranty deed convey better title than a quitclaim?
Can you discount a warranty deed for lack of back title? I've heard the same attorney argue both answers.
Can a warranty deed convey a fractional interest when it is not specified as conveying the same?
If the lawyers would come up with consistent answers for these questions, titles would be much easier.
Is a warranty deed superior to a quitclaim deed? IOW Does a warranty deed convey better title than a quitclaim?
It is supposed to but in our state I have seen a judge discount the warranty aspects on the old deeds. There seems to be a lack of parties to warranty the deeds! As a Warranty deed is supposed to protect against other title claims, and all those deeds are most likely in excess of 100 years, well you get my point! I did see one local attorney, local to you that is, argue that point with a land court judge, "but your honor, we have a warranty deed in our title," in his best whiny voice, and the judge replied, "everyone has a warranty deed in their title."
Can you discount a warranty deed for lack of back title? I've heard the same attorney argue both answers.
No, they are virtually the same to us out here...
Can a warranty deed convey a fractional interest when it is not specified as conveying the same?
Yes, a warranty deed can convey only the interest held.
If the lawyers would come up with consistent answers for these questions, titles would be much easier.
Then they wouldn't get paid so much! They have to be able to advocate both sides of any issue...
That whiney attorney Don mentioned successfully litigated an adverse claim of a fractional interest. There were other facts at play including intention and full use.
What would you do?>Oh and Thadd
Go for it! What do you have to lose other than some time?
What would you do?>Oh and Thadd
i could lose some more marbles...
dang it all everyone here, i was hoping for the lazy way out...
You have about 10% of a whole. You indicate that there are numerous other interest holders, well get the whole tract appraised and offer your 7/72 interest to another interest holder or try to get the land divided so you own a described tract with no other interest holders involved. You have a mess that you can't borrow money on, taxes must be a mess to keep up with and it would be a long shot getting it divided. You would be better off getting out before you spend much money, get into a squabble with the other interest holders or end up paying all the taxes to keep your 7/72 interest. Undivided interest in anything is a problem someday.
jud
PUNT
she probably paid $200 for it 100 years ago, counter offer $5k. take the money and run.
How could there be an adverse claim against unused land? It's not fenced is it? Or used in any way??
First thing is to park an old truck on it, hopefully insured and plated. Maybe mow some grass so you can put your portable shed there. Wait till summer and pitch a tent for the kids.
Let the neighbors get it surveyed. Maybe they'll call you. Meanwhile, you can check title issues and decide if there is anything to decide.
Like Don said, 10% of 200K per acre is a nice chunk for not doing much else. Maybe have the kids build a snow man for Easter.
Sorry about your grandma though. Hope the rest of the family is well.
i think i will setup a straw trust to convey all the partial interests into and start tracking down all those relatives. then i do not have to payout before land is sold. pull expenses of title and survey work out, then split profits and i can sleep at night. i also don't have to look over my shoulder.
the title examiner bought a different parcel from 5 heirs. they found out they had been swindled a week later. he bought their combined 100% for $575K and sold it the same day for $2.25M. granted there was research and hiring a surveyor and other expenses, you know 1.4 million dollars worth of office supplies...
Don't you need to get an agreement from all interest holders to set up a trust? You don't own controlling interest and you have no authority over the other owners. Were I an interest holder and you came to me wanting me to convey my interest into your trust, you would probably be returning home with a limp and squinting through one eye. You need to get some legal advice and do some checking into what has happened to others in your position. I say again undivided interest is trouble.
jud
One parcel was $4, the other was 'One Dollars and other consideration'.
i have talked to one of my five cousins who combined own about 37.5% and two of the five close cousins who add to my interest to total 25%, so we could very easily get a majority of the interest. it's the other side of the family who mated like rabbits and that last 37.5% will be some real work to sort out.
would you really hurt me if i offered the trust idea? how about if I offer you a pittance or a fraction of a pittance for your interest?
