So I have an opportunity to provide services on a nationwide project and the client is requesting I have a license in each state on the team. The surveying does not involve boundaries at all, simple measurements of distances and bearings between a four points at each site. Final deliverable do not require a stamp, but the licensed surveyor will be asked to review a work plan for each site, be provide the GPS adjustment report and raw data files, and the final drawing to review and be familiar with. Surveyor will also be encouraged to stop out and visit a site while work is being performed to meet crews and watch them perform measurements.
Here's the question, would you as a licensed professional accept this type of work? I'm expecting anywhere from $500 to $750 per site for a review.. there may be 3 to 5 surveys in a state and would want the surveyor to review all and any for other states he might be licensed in.
What do you guys think of this approach?
So you have a bunch of people doing the work you don't know? You say "responsible charge fee" in your title, but it doesn't sound like you are. It doesn't sound so good to me. Why do they want you to be licensed in each state if you don't have to sign and seal anything? The entire thing sounds bad to me.
I'd be happy to provide contract surveying in Idaho and Washington but my crew would have to do the field work.
Per Diem And Travel Expenses Extra
At that rate they cannot expect you to travel to each site on your own nickel.
Plus they would pay for each additional license application and renewal fee above my one and provide me documentation that I am covered for all said work on their E&O insurance.
As to responsible charge it is my understanding that video conferencing regularly with a crew is acceptable in some some states. Full cost of video conference setup and maintenance is also on their nickel.
Paul in PA
> So I have an opportunity to provide services on a nationwide project and the client is requesting I have a license in each state on the team. The surveying does not involve boundaries at all, simple measurements of distances and bearings between a four points at each site. Final deliverable do not require a stamp, but the licensed surveyor will be asked to review a work plan for each site, be provide the GPS adjustment report and raw data files, and the final drawing to review and be familiar with. Surveyor will also be encouraged to stop out and visit a site while work is being performed to meet crews and watch them perform measurements.
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> Here's the question, would you as a licensed professional accept this type of work? I'm expecting anywhere from $500 to $750 per site for a review.. there may be 3 to 5 surveys in a state and would want the surveyor to review all and any for other states he might be licensed in.
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> What do you guys think of this approach?
In Ohio either the individual PS contracts for this personally or the firm offering the supervision must comply with Ohio Law 4733.16 Business authorized to practice and 4733.161 Unauthorized practice. Many other states have similar laws and simply hiring a licensed individual in the state may not comply. Several of the national "survey broker" firms have run afoul of these laws in the past.
Be careful because most of the states share disciplinary information including unlicensed practice reporting. Violating the authorized firm law in another state could have you answering uncomfortable questions from the license board in your home state.
Let me clarify.. I apparently didn't explain very clearly.
I'm getting a separate fee to do the work and travel. I am licensed in several states. When I go into a state I'm not licensed, I want surveyor there to review my work and agree it's to the state's standards. I will pay them $500 to $750 per site to review my data.
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I'll be conducting the measurements and traveling to the sites, I'm licensed in several states. I'm trying to find surveyors in the same cities as the projects so license has minimal mobilization to the site. He'll work with us for a morning to see our work and ask questions, get comfortable with the project. This is actually very simple work, but the license presents a challenge.
The documents do not need stamped, but many state laws do not specify that a document must be. Oregon for example, has a very broad definition as surveying that includes any measurements conducted for the purpose of calculating distance (I'm paraphrasing, only read it briefly). No stamp needed, but if you want to measure professionally .. you have to be licensed.
I know it sounds strange, but what I'm trying to do is be as legitimate as possible here while realizing the client's request is difficult to achieve. It would be entirely possible for me to fly in, pull out a total station, measure it and fly back out. I'm afraid my competition might do this, but I'm going to bid only legal and ethical work.
I'm asking the question.. would anyone consider doing this? I'm fairly certain I would if asked. A $3 or $4k project that only requires a review of data, seems straight forward. Perhaps a teaming agreement could be crafted so that the License assumes no liability or is covered under my liability insurance.
Yeh, I'm aware of these laws and I don't intend to try to skirt around them. The intent here is to have a legitimate review of the work, make sure if is performed to the professional standards of the state. The fact is there isn't that much data to review, we will be measuring a handful of points via total station, after setting a pair of points with static gps to occupy and backsite.
If I asked you to come out and watch me turn 5 angles and measure with an edm, and I wanted you to look at my data, and agree that it was performed to the standards of the state.. I would think 5 to 8 hours of time would be enough for this.. for me. Especially if I showed you equipment calibration logs, had work plans, and quality control standards all documented and you were on site for the morning. Seems reasonable to me.. I was hoping it seemed the same to you all.
How about if I as a licensed surveyor am onsite, your tech is holding my prism. Is that doable? Does it have to be your gun and your crew chief? Your GPS?
I hadn't considered contracting out part of the field work, but if I leave my rodman at home and invite you and one of your techs out for a morning that might work. In this case I'd be supervising to make sure it was done to client's specs, you're supervising to make sure it's done to state's. Interesting idea.
Per Diem And Travel Expenses Extra
My goal would not be for you to travel to each site, only one. You'd be comfortable with what you see to review the rest of the data based on the work standards you witnessed. The first site is located in your home town.
I bet the set-up would change not in your favor after the jobs got started.
This scenario of not signing anything, is always a warning sign.
A lot of what you would be doing depends on the state statues on what "surveying" is. If it falls under surveying and you need a license, then most states have a definition of what being in Responsible Charge is. I'd say in most states what your propose would be against there rules. On the other hand, if it doesn't meet states definition of surveying, then its up to you on what you are comfortable with. But if thats the case, why do they want you to be licensed.
What you are talking about is not responsible charge. Responsible charge is not merely reviewing someone else's work.
Responsible charge means direct supervision of your own employees or doing the work yourself.
Being a subcontractor getting a glimpse of the contractor's crew (whom you are under contract to) is the opposite of responsible charge. If I meet with the crew of my client, of course they are going to put their best foot forward so I can be "comfortable." You may be the most honest guy on Earth but I have no way of knowing that.
Every measurement task does not necessarily require a PLS license.
You are a hop, skip and a jump away from being a survey broker.
When I get too much to handle from a client, I've found it best to sub the ones I can't handle to another surveyor, review his work, we both can sign and seal and he can bill me for his participation.
No laws are trampled upon, nobody gets stepped on or left out of the loop and everyone should be happy the work is completed.
0.02
Sounds fishy to me. Do you really think that anyone who falls for this is safe from liability or is the real goal to avoid liability yourself?
jud
Presumably you are being asked to do this because you have some special expertise?
In that case, I might not agree because you may be more of an expert than I. I'm not going to participate in a legal fiction that I know more because I happened to be licensed in a certain state.
On the other hand, if I reviewed your resume and found you were good at this particular type of surveying, and I knew that I was good at it, then I might consider some kind of partnership. But absolutely not a mere cursory office review for a fixed fee of less than 1k. That kind of offer, I wouldn't even review your proposal.
You should investigate the definition of "Responsible Charge" in those various jurisdictions.
California definition would not permit your proposed game plan.
what you are proposing, would probably not fly in many jurisdiction as others have pointed out. I have worked with some folks from out of state and I understand the dilemna. I would be glad to work with you in NC, but likely would have to be on each site. I really would prefer to do the field work, but feel free to email and discuss.
surveys@nclandsurveys.com
My goal was to be straight forward and get opinions from fellow professionals. I'm not sure what part I said that you indicated to you I was trying to pull something. I'm very interested to hear opinions on what might be necessary to make this feasible.
Thanks for the input, that is exactly what's going on. I have a specialization in this niche market with a resume that reflects my expertise. In the end it's just angles and distances, but safety on the sites is of critical importance and I've done enough of this that they feel confident in my abilities to do it safely and accurately.
> My goal was to be straight forward and get opinions from fellow professionals. I'm not sure what part I said that you indicated to you I was trying to pull something. I'm very interested to hear opinions on what might be necessary to make this feasible.
Dang...I'll talk to you about your crew working under my supervision...or my crew working for you...under my supervision...
DDSM;-)
(key words..."under my supervision")
