I have a problem. And it is either my planner, register of deeds, or county attorney.
North Carolina General Statute 47-30 states that a surveyor can record existing parcels and nothing can prevent this act
" a. That the survey creates a subdivision of land within the area of a county or municipality that has an ordinance that regulates parcels of land;
b. That the survey is located in a portion of a county or municipality that is unregulated as to an ordinance that regulates parcels of land;
c. Any one of the following:
1. That the survey is of an existing parcel or parcels of land and does not create a new street or change an existing street;
2. That the survey is of an existing building or other structure, or natural feature, such as a watercourse; or
3. That the survey is a control survey.
d. That the survey is of another category, such as the recombination of existing parcels, a court-ordered survey, or other exception to the definition of subdivision;
e. That the information available to the surveyor is such that the surveyor is unable to make a determination to the best of the surveyor's professional ability as to provisions contained in (a) through (d) above.
However, if the plat contains the certificate of a surveyor as stated in a., d., or e. above, then the plat shall have, in addition to said surveyor's certificate, a certification of approval, or no approval required, as may be required by local ordinance from the appropriate government authority before the plat is presented for recordation. If the plat contains the certificate of a surveyor as stated in b. or c. above, nothing shall prevent the recordation of the plat if all other provisions have been met.
(g) Recording of Plat. In certifying a plat for recording, the Review Officer shall not be responsible for reviewing or certifying as to any of the following requirements of this section:
(1) Subsection (b) of this section as to archival;
(2) Subsection (e) of this section.
(3) Subdivisions of (1) through (10) of subsection (f) of this section."
.
.
.
My planner says they have a county ordinance defines a lot of record is defined as
"Existing Lot (Lot of Record). A lot which is part of a subdivision, a plat of which has been recorded in the Office of the Register of Deeds prior to the adoption of this Ordinance or a lot described by metes and bounds, the description of which has been so recorded prior to the adoption of this Ordinance. "
The ordinance was adopted in July 1987.
Now my problem is I have to get a review officer signature before my register of deeds will record my plat. I say they are wrong. I say state statute trumps because of the words "nothing shall prevent".
How do you see it? Any experience in North Carolina?
What year was your parcel created? Our county has a set of maps for reference showing the existing parcels as of the year that the ordinance was adopted.
1975, before the ordinance.
In my mind any tract of land that has a metes and bounds is an existing parcel.
Furthermore any tract that has a parcel identification number (PIN) is an existing tract.
I agree with you.
Not North Carolina but...I've seen similar impasses solved by a planning signature block that states something like "This plat is exempt from the planning & subdivision review process per Section blah, blah, blah of the code".
I've used that on divisions of land per a will that were except from the subdivision review process. Five minutes in the planning department to get a signature on the way to get it recorded and we were good to go.
Contradictory language. "if all other provisions have been met"
I think you need a signature. Why won't they sign it?
The point is that I don't legally think they should sign it.
I have had one instance where an existing tract (old description and has a PIN) was smaller than current standards allow and the planners wanted me to research when the tract was created to make sure it wasn't created illegally.
To the planners an existing parcel is a legal lot not just a tract with a PIN and they need to sign off on the existing tract language before I am allowed to record.
This is all principle in my mind. It's not out of the way for me to take for signatures. However if the law states I don't need to then why should I?
We have the same problem in Tennessee and Kentucky.
Both states allow boundary surveys to be recorded.
Idiotass registers in both states want to require the planning commission to sign off on these surveys. There is one county nearby in Kentucky that has been told by the state AG to record the surveys and the clerk still refuses.
I could see myself doing that every once in a while to get something through, but there is no way I'd bow to those control freaks on a regular basis. They need to be taken down a notch or two.
Why are you going to the planner if it meets b or c 1-3 ? Of course they going to say they have to look at it, ( Fees) , If an existing lot is to be put on public record , it has no jurisdiction under planning . You have no obligation to let them see it .. I do it all the time, just go and record the map if it meets C 1-3 , The Register of deeds will not stop you , it better meet the requirements though.
In Nc we do not record existing surveys so when we do no one knows what to do , we think we need approvals for the map from planning . Its like seeing a spotted zebra once you see it a couple times your ok with it . Go train your deed office . And record all the maps you want.
If they are stopping you call Tom Morgan , The Land records manager with the Secretary of State , he will set them straight .
In Virginia ....
we had something similar going on so we got an opinion from the Attorney General. here it is:
The Register of Deeds is 100% WRONG. If you put the proper certification on the plat (per 47-30) and the plat contains your original seal and signature, then they are obligated by law to record the plat.
Some Registers of Deeds have believed the BS that they have been fed by planning departments. In the area where I work our Planner told the R-o-D that they were not to record anything unless and until he was consulted and approved. The R-o-D called me and asked if he had the authority to do that. I told her all we had was a simple subdivision ordinance and even that didn't apply in the towns so no he had no such authority. We agreed he was power hungry and decided to abide by the existing law.
My advice is to take the plat back to the R-o-D with a copy of GS 47-30 in hand. Point out the relevant section of the law and see if they will back down. If not, be as nice as possible but make sure they understand you have no choice but to contact both state and local authorities and explain that they refuse to comply with state law. If they still refuse make sure they know that the next time there is an election for that office you will share with their opponents that the current R-o-D does not run their office in accordance with the law.
Larry P
> Not North Carolina but...I've seen similar impasses solved by a planning signature block that states something like "This plat is exempt from the planning & subdivision review process per Section blah, blah, blah of the code".
>
> I've used that on divisions of land per a will that were except from the subdivision review process. Five minutes in the planning department to get a signature on the way to get it recorded and we were good to go.
The problem with that approach is what happens when the planning department wants you to make changes that they have no authority to request. I have seen this so many times it would make your head spin.
Larry P
> Contradictory language. "if all other provisions have been met"
>
> I think you need a signature. Why won't they sign it?
Nope, no signature required. The statute was drafted with exactly this situation in mind. Planners and planning departments were holding up things over which they had zero authority.
If the surveyors original seal and signature and the proper certification are on the plat it is recorded period.
Larry P
I understand it is an issue with some of the counties here in NC. Took a class a while back from LarryP and he made that very clear. I have the same type of plat getting ready to be recorded and called the ROD to make sure that it was not going to be a problem. They did say it was ok as long as I have a note explaining the exemption. Sounds like your county may need some education.
> Why are you going to the planner if it meets b or c 1-3 ? Of course they going to say they have to look at it, ( Fees) , If an existing lot is to be put on public record , it has no jurisdiction under planning . You have no obligation to let them see it .. I do it all the time, just go and record the map if it meets C 1-3 , The Register of deeds will not stop you , it better meet the requirements though.
>
> In Nc we do not record existing surveys so when we do no one knows what to do , we think we need approvals for the map from planning . Its like seeing a spotted zebra once you see it a couple times your ok with it . Go train your deed office . And record all the maps you want.
> If they are stopping you call Tom Morgan , The Land records manager with the Secretary of State , he will set them straight .
:good:
Exactly right.
I should've waited 5 min.
> I should've waited 5 min.
Life is too short to wait man. Jump in and let 'er fly. 😉
Larry P
Not all Register of Deeds will record without Planning signing off...most will but I have had some refuse...when I pushed back the plat ended up being recorded but the county planning now is very nitpicky with me because I went "behind their backs". I would demand they file my plat and tell them that they are breaking the law if they refuse. be sure and have the written code with you.
If the county has a separate tax id for the parcel, it is an existing lot whether or not it predates their ordinance.. A boundary survey does not create a lot, if there is a deed and a tax id, there is a lot. You can map and file it.
