Not sure this belongs here, but since applications are legal issues in a way, I'll give it a shot.
I'm filling out the online version of the PA LS application and it is requiring the SIT certificate issue date.
I had the experience in NJ to bypass the LSIT and apply directly for my PLS. I do not have a SIT certificate issue date because of this.
I'm assuming I'll have to do the paper version of this exercise to get anywhere?
Edited: The problem stems from the fact that one of the questions asks "Have you passed the FS AND Have your SIT?"
Edited 2ND: or is there a way to just transmit my info from NCEES with a letter to PA's Board?
I was able to take all three tests in PA on a single weekend, I think it had something to do with my experience starting before a certain date. I believe now you have to be an SIT and then wait 5 years? But I could be wrong...
I was able to take all three tests in PA on a single weekend, I think it had something to do with my experience starting before a certain date. I believe now you have to be an SIT and then wait 5 years? But I could be wrong...
I'm currently licensed as a PLS in NJ. I'd be going for comity / reciprocity.
I took the FS, PS, have an ABET approved degree in Land Surveying Engineering Tech, etc.
The hangup is that the online app is asking for an SIT certificate issue date. I do not have one. Only the PLS?ÿ license issue date.
I've run into that several times without a hitch. I did the all in one plan too and never held an SIT..
Does it let you leave it blank?
Do you even need that??ÿ I'm not familiar with PA, but other states have separate forms or parts of forms, depending on how you're applying.?ÿ So maybe you're in a section that you don't need to fill out.?ÿ?ÿ Some states you don't need to fill out education or submit a portfolio if you're applying through reciprocity.
Does it let you leave it blank?
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on the online form, no.
Do you even need that??ÿ I'm not familiar with PA, but other states have separate forms or parts of forms, depending on how you're applying.?ÿ So maybe you're in a section that you don't need to fill out.?ÿ?ÿ Some states you don't need to fill out education or submit a portfolio if you're applying through reciprocity.
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Probably my problem. However, the form I'm using asks you about prior FS, ps and existing licensure. I will dig around to see if I find something different Thanks
Comity means the requirements in the state you received your PLS must equal or exceed PA's. You have to show your degree date, and PLS date, you will be applying for the FSIT and PA specific if your boundary survey experience exceeds 5 years. Of that 5 years a minimum of 25% must be in field or in office. I had sufficient education and more than 5 years of office experience, but not even 15 months of field boundary line experience. It took me several more years to fill out that 15 months. A degree and five years after?ÿdoing stakeout does not cut it. If your degree and?ÿ experience starts after 1991 they could under the detailed requirements say NO! I suggest you start by filling out your detailed experience in paper format. It would be good to be adding your time as a PLS to the experience you used to fulfill the NJ requirements. Then sit down with an experienced PA PLS and review it. You do need to have someone else account for your PLS work. If you say or write the wrong words you could be taking the LSIT and then waiting 5 more years. No do over application. Do not be surprised if they request a personal appearance at a Board meeting to question you.
Been there twice, at the first meeting they gladly offered to let me sit for the LSIT and wait 5 more years and I politely declined. After a carefully amended application I got to appear again. I did not get an affirmative reply until 1 month before the?ÿdate of the 3 exams.?ÿSeveral people asked how I was going to prepare in 1 month and I said I wasn't as I had been preparing for a significant number of years.
Paul in PA
Steve, I see in another post that you have taken the FS. The date you took the FS is the date you put as your LSIT date. You would need 5 years of boundary line surveying work after that date..
It's crazy to me how some state boards have a bit of an attitude, that their standards are superior.
If someone's got a license, especially in an abutting state, I'd think that should be sufficient evidence that there should be a presumption of qualification and eligibility.?ÿ
I don't like degree requirements, but I can understand if the candidate doesn't have one and is currently licensed in a state that doesn't require it.?ÿ But that's not the case here.
If someone's got a license, especially in an abutting state, I'd think that should be sufficient evidence that there should be a presumption of qualification and eligibility
Delaware is like that. If you apply and have been licensed in an adjoining state for more than two years the application process takes less than five minutes.
I applied in PA under the old law since my experience began prior to the grandfathering date.?ÿ I called the Board to ask if I had to submit almost 30 experience forms (their application has one per year) all the way back to 1988 to show that I met the requirements to sit under the old registration law.?ÿ The Board administrator said to just submit for the last twelve years.?ÿ So I submitted twelve forms with almost the exact same work experience description: "Licensed Professional Land Surveyor in direct responsible charge of field and office?ÿsurvey operations?ÿfor boundary, topographic, control, subdivision, condominium, ALTA, and construction surveys" ?ÿ?ÿ
James,
Talking to the Board before applying is good, I would assume they took you at your word on your experience start date and under the old law as I recall 12 years experience was sufficient without any education to apply. I know my experience was quite long and the board members complained about the length, but because my surveying experience was sporadic over many years as a PE, I saw no other choice on how to explain it.
BTW, when were you first licensed? as license date may have been sufficient to show compliance with old law.
Steven,
I was wrong on the 5 years (old law), under the new law 4 years after taking the FS (automatically qualifies you as an LSIT in PA) is sufficient. One can still qualify under the old law, experience before 1991 or degree before 1994 as there was no Sunset to the choice. Once you select to apply under the new law you cannot go back to the old law.
"(2) An applicant who satisfactorily completes the fundamentals examination shall be certified as a surveyor-in-training without time limitation and may remain certified until such time as he becomes licensed under this act as a professional land surveyor."
Paul in PA, PE, PLS
It's crazy to me how some state boards have a bit of an attitude, that their standards are superior.
If someone's got a license, especially in an abutting state, I'd think that should be sufficient evidence that there should be a presumption of qualification and eligibility.?ÿ
I don't like degree requirements, but I can understand if the candidate doesn't have one and is currently licensed in a state that doesn't require it.?ÿ But that's not the case here.
Not crazy, State Boards are required to follow the letter of the law. It is the applicant's responsibility to show he/she meets the law's requirements, it is?ÿnot for the Board to assume.
Paul in PA
It's crazy to me how some state boards have a bit of an attitude, that their standards are superior.
If someone's got a license, especially in an abutting state, I'd think that should be sufficient evidence that there should be a presumption of qualification and eligibility.?ÿ
I don't like degree requirements, but I can understand if the candidate doesn't have one and is currently licensed in a state that doesn't require it.?ÿ But that's not the case here.
Not crazy, State Boards are required to follow the letter of the law. It is the applicant's responsibility to show he/she meets the law's requirements, it is?ÿnot for the Board to assume.
Paul in PA
My point is that having a license in another state should be prima facie evidence that the applicant meets the requirements to obtain licensure, since he already is licensed.?ÿ After that, it's just territorial nit-picking and protectionism.
Comity means the requirements in the state you received your PLS must equal or exceed PA's. You have to show your degree date, and PLS date, you will be applying for the FSIT and PA specific if your boundary survey experience exceeds 5 years. Of that 5 years a minimum of 25% must be in field or in office. I had sufficient education and more than 5 years of office experience, but not even 15 months of field boundary line experience. It took me several more years to fill out that 15 months. A degree and five years after?ÿdoing stakeout does not cut it. If your degree and?ÿ experience starts after 1991 they could under the detailed requirements say NO! I suggest you start by filling out your detailed experience in paper format. It would be good to be adding your time as a PLS to the experience you used to fulfill the NJ requirements. Then sit down with an experienced PA PLS and review it. You do need to have someone else account for your PLS work. If you say or write the wrong words you could be taking the LSIT and then waiting 5 more years. No do over application. Do not be surprised if they request a personal appearance at a Board meeting to question you.
Been there twice, at the first meeting they gladly offered to let me sit for the LSIT and wait 5 more years and I politely declined. After a carefully amended application I got to appear again. I did not get an affirmative reply until 1 month before the?ÿdate of the 3 exams.?ÿSeveral people asked how I was going to prepare in 1 month and I said I wasn't as I had been preparing for a significant number of years.
Paul in PA
Steve, I see in another post that you have taken the FS. The date you took the FS is the date you put as your LSIT date. You would need 5 years of boundary line surveying work after that date..
I am a Licensed Land Surveyor in NJ.
I have a 4 tyear ABET degree in Land Survey Engineering Technology awarded in May of '17.
I?ÿ passed the FS and PS in February and March of '18.
I also have been surveying in some capacity since I was 15 (now 42 years old) so that is roughly 27 year of experience. I've had to itemize that with my state board to be licensed. I went back 23 years because the first few years I was a minor. Also, the way our law is, it is supposed to be after the FS/LSIT but it is reviewed on a case by case basis.
Based on your wording, I'm another 5 years out based on PA law?
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Comity means the requirements in the state you received your PLS must equal or exceed PA's. You have to show your degree date, and PLS date, you will be applying for the FSIT and PA specific if your boundary survey experience exceeds 5 years. Of that 5 years a minimum of 25% must be in field or in office. I had sufficient education and more than 5 years of office experience, but not even 15 months of field boundary line experience. It took me several more years to fill out that 15 months. A degree and five years after?ÿdoing stakeout does not cut it. If your degree and?ÿ experience starts after 1991 they could under the detailed requirements say NO! I suggest you start by filling out your detailed experience in paper format. It would be good to be adding your time as a PLS to the experience you used to fulfill the NJ requirements. Then sit down with an experienced PA PLS and review it. You do need to have someone else account for your PLS work. If you say or write the wrong words you could be taking the LSIT and then waiting 5 more years. No do over application. Do not be surprised if they request a personal appearance at a Board meeting to question you.
Been there twice, at the first meeting they gladly offered to let me sit for the LSIT and wait 5 more years and I politely declined. After a carefully amended application I got to appear again. I did not get an affirmative reply until 1 month before the?ÿdate of the 3 exams.?ÿSeveral people asked how I was going to prepare in 1 month and I said I wasn't as I had been preparing for a significant number of years.
Paul in PA
Steve, I see in another post that you have taken the FS. The date you took the FS is the date you put as your LSIT date. You would need 5 years of boundary line surveying work after that date..
I am a Licensed Land Surveyor in NJ.
I have an ABET degree in Land Survey Engineering Technology awarded in May of '17.
I have obviously passed the tests after that date to be licensed.
I also have been surveying in some capacity since I was 15 (now 42 years old) so that is roughly 27 year of experience. I've had to itemize that with my state board to be licensed.
I'm guessing that even with an ABET degree and an existing PLS, I'll have to wait until I've been surveying with a license to practice in NJ for 5 years as of February of 2017?
Seems ... redundant, but if that is the way it is, I'll have to wait.
Have you spoken with anyone from the PA Survey Board? If you go to a board meeting and bring up your past experience and that you have a NJ license, they may wave the 5 year SIT time, and let you sit for test, if they say Yes great, if they say no well you have to wait 5 years anyways so you didn't lose anything by asking the board.?ÿ?ÿ
Comity means the requirements in the state you received your PLS must equal or exceed PA's. You have to show your degree date, and PLS date, you will be applying for the FSIT and PA specific if your boundary survey experience exceeds 5 years. Of that 5 years a minimum of 25% must be in field or in office. I had sufficient education and more than 5 years of office experience, but not even 15 months of field boundary line experience. It took me several more years to fill out that 15 months. A degree and five years after?ÿdoing stakeout does not cut it. If your degree and?ÿ experience starts after 1991 they could under the detailed requirements say NO! I suggest you start by filling out your detailed experience in paper format. It would be good to be adding your time as a PLS to the experience you used to fulfill the NJ requirements. Then sit down with an experienced PA PLS and review it. You do need to have someone else account for your PLS work. If you say or write the wrong words you could be taking the LSIT and then waiting 5 more years. No do over application. Do not be surprised if they request a personal appearance at a Board meeting to question you.
Been there twice, at the first meeting they gladly offered to let me sit for the LSIT and wait 5 more years and I politely declined. After a carefully amended application I got to appear again. I did not get an affirmative reply until 1 month before the?ÿdate of the 3 exams.?ÿSeveral people asked how I was going to prepare in 1 month and I said I wasn't as I had been preparing for a significant number of years.
Paul in PA
Steve, I see in another post that you have taken the FS. The date you took the FS is the date you put as your LSIT date. You would need 5 years of boundary line surveying work after that date..
I am a Licensed Land Surveyor in NJ.
I have an ABET degree in Land Survey Engineering Technology awarded in May of '17.
I have obviously passed the tests after that date to be licensed.
I also have been surveying in some capacity since I was 15 (now 42 years old) so that is roughly 27 year of experience. I've had to itemize that with my state board to be licensed.
I'm guessing that even with an ABET degree and an existing PLS, I'll have to wait until I've been surveying with a license to practice in NJ for 5 years as of February of 2017?
Seems ... redundant, but if that is the way it is, I'll have to wait.
Have you spoken with anyone from the PA Survey Board? If you go to a board meeting and bring up your past experience and that you have a NJ license, they may wave the 5 year SIT time, and let you sit for test, if they say Yes great, if they say no well you have to wait 5 years anyways so you didn't lose anything by asking the board.?ÿ?ÿ
?ÿI edited to sound less "Snooty." It was not my intention. I'm not one to judge another state's licensing practices.
?ÿ
Thanks for the tips.
?ÿ
State Boards know the specific rules in their State, they do not think their rules are better, but do know they are different, sometimes for reasons only the lawmakers know.
Steve should apply now. First off, if they hold to experience after the FS it is 4 years under the new law. Second, the experience accepted by NJ is of considerable length. Third, under the new law, Steve could have taken the FS after 2 years of education and it would have counted had he received an Associates Degree. So there are multiple ways the Board could look at his situation. I do not know if they would entertain his just showing up at a Board meeting, but if they were to decline an application on the details,?ÿthey do consider inviting you then to a Board meeting to answer questions in person. I was declined twice, went to 2 Board meetings and after a full understanding of the details of the law and of my application was accepted.
Engineers outnumber the surveyors and geologists on the board so you need to convince only a few members.
BTW, where is your degree from, NJIT is my first guess?
Paul in PA
Yes, NJIT.
State Boards know the specific rules in their State, they do not think their rules are better, but do know they are different, sometimes for reasons only the lawmakers know.
I disagree.?ÿ They're not granting a license to survey at this point, just determining whether someone is eligible and qualified to take their state specific test.?ÿ The applicant has a license in another state.?ÿ That on its face should deem someone eligible and qualified to take their test.?ÿ There should really be no need for further convincing.?ÿ
What other conclusion can there be?
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I have no dog in this particular fight, but I've dealt with NY in the past and had a similar experience.
If you took all the NJ tests at the same time, I would think that you SIT date is the same as your LS date.
Also, NCEES will walk you right through your records transfer from one state to the next. https://ncees.org/records/
Unless you are trying dealing with NY and they will want a letter from the state you took the FS and PS in.?ÿ