That's my time I'm not getting back and so deserves compensation. Marching and fighting pay the same.
That deserves a thumbs up. ????ÿ
Thanks for all the comments on this. It opened my eyes on a few perspectives I wasn't thinking about.?ÿ
This is a great thread and realistic. My boss tried immediately to introduce a change from a previous company in this regard. The company we are at now pays from the time you leave home to time you return. Unless you come to the office then it starts when you reach office. But from home to site is all on the clock. My boss wanted to say only while on job site. I said you expect to keep crew chiefs to drive 2 hours on their own dime. He said its a privilege to have a company truck. I said ok advertise for a crew chief and make it in writing they must have own work truck. A crew chief could easily spend a half hour some days swapping and charging batteries cleaning up equipment etc. So he has not pushed the issue yet hard but is planning on not paying the return trip home. Some of our jobs its a hour to 1.5 hours with no traffic. I have taken 2 hours on trip home when it??s usually a hour in non traffic. I charged an hour ate the other hour. But that was a week straight. This is where the work life balance has to be considered also. The wives or husbands at home seeing their spouses work and come home late but some of that time doesn??t convert to dollars for the family. In lean times I might tell my crew chief look things are tight we need to make budget. Bare with me send me an email with extra drive hours. Then when i can i get that back to them in pto or other means. ?ÿTake care of the employee and they will take care of you. ?ÿNow that doesn??t mean you don??t correct them when needed.?ÿ
My boss wanted to say only while on job site. I said you expect to keep crew chiefs to drive 2 hours on their own dime.
This is what happens for our union field crews by what I understand. Company truck, 1 hour commute both ways unpaid. Crews are paid for time on site and time beyond the 1 hour commute both ways.
I am aware of a fellow who sometimes takes the truck home and sometimes doesn't.?ÿ It comes down to a matter of practicality.?ÿ At the moment, the truck and four-wheeler and all necessary equipment is at his home.?ÿ He will leave before sun up Monday morning to head to a job that is 100 miles from his office, but, only 80 from his home.?ÿ He will put in at least an extra hour of productive work that day.?ÿ His return from a different job in a different direction was 20 miles shorter to his home than if he went back to the office.?ÿ Another productive hour happened on Friday on a job only 30 miles from his home.?ÿ As a business owner, I have learned how valuable that extra hour can be.?ÿ Frequently, this allows the surveyor to wrap up the field work instead of returning for what truly only requires an extra hour but can be several hours when the drive time is added in.
Some good discussion.?ÿ There are labor laws that address the matter of am I REQUIRED to pay for that time.?ÿ In addition to federal, there may be state laws that go further - so you might want to check your state.?ÿ I've no idea if any state has significantly more required instances of paying travel time.
Those laws don't help with the SHOULD I pay travel time.?ÿ Depending on office location and typical job site, it could be a big deal especially if it is a change to an already de facto policy.
As FL/GA points out, there are additional concerns with company benefits of a vehicle.?ÿ Although Hi-staker says screw em, I would caution that all it would take is one disgruntled employee keeping track and having some knowledge to create problems down the road.?ÿ Even that employee that you might wonder why do I even keep on staff s/he is so dense might surprise you with just how much they know when it comes to using a system to achieve revenge for some perceived slight.?ÿ I can specifically recall one guy at a company I worked for a long time ago.?ÿ He could barely figure out what attire was appropriate for the days work, but was well versed on comp time and was keeping every potential misstep by the company in his back pocket as a revenge tool if he decided to be petty.
@steinhoff man glad i am not Union. ?ÿWhen i was in Colorado mid and late 90??s. We would make a 4 hour drive early Monday morning before the chickens woke early. Work all week get home about 10pm Saturday night. We were on the clock on both 4 hour trips. We would work 10 to 12 hours on site. Take a hour sometimes hour an a half dinner come back to hotel download process data do comps for next day usually a couple hours. ?ÿOur boss owner of the company would about once a month come up mid week or towards end of the week and if we had a few he would bring donuts and that evening take us to a nice restaurant. I mean prime rib steak whatever. He paid our hotel but paid cash for per diem in advance. He never once asked us or shorted us on per diem. Sometimes we would get that envelope of per diem and it would be double. We discovered this the first time and left the extra on his desk and said someone made a mistake. ?ÿOver paid us. Next week he had given that back plus a whole extra week and that weeks. Left a note that said something about I don??t make mistakes you keep this and here??s some extra for being honest. He said if i ever short you let me know. If i over pay its not a mistake. Thank you for the hard work. 18 crews and very little turnover of employees. Now we worked and worked hard. But he took care of us all.
Unfortunately there are a lot more bad boss stories out their than good boss stories.?ÿ Nevertheless, although I am currently in a union I have never been a "union man".
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@mark-mayer well I believe and I want to believe there are more good bosses than bad ones. But the bad or negative always gets discussed more for sure. It happens with vehicles or reviews etc. only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch. I have had some very good ones. In private sector and military and government. I have had a handful that were poor poor leaders and poor managers. But overall i have to say i have been blessed. Even the good ones ticked me off once in a while like being a kid I probably deserved it ????. ?ÿMy dad use to say hey come over here and let me whip you and i would say for what. He would say whatever wrong thing i did and didn??t get caught yet ????. I don??t know much about unions at all. I am sure like anything they have pros and cons. My mom was a union employee for 33 years. Retired but she has nothing much good to say so i just have not ever joined one. I am on a project now that most of the construction workers are union. I am ignorant about them so really don??t have an opinion either way I guess.
How should the remaining crew members be compensated that don??t have a company vehicle? When the party chief picks them up, when they get to the office or drive their own vehicles to the job site??ÿ
You do realize the employees who use trucks for transportation to and from work is considered taxable income by the IRS, plus you as an employer have to report it and pay taxes on that income as well. ?????ÿ
this one depends on how the company is doing the federal deduction for taxes etc.
only one company I worked with ever did this, and they also nickeled and dimed everything and had a high turnover rate to boot.
My home is a satellite office and I go portal to portal from there.?ÿ?ÿ
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@wagner152
Nothing different from normal.?ÿ Having a company vehicle sounds like a benefit but it also is a curse in a variety of ways.
You do realize the employees who use trucks for transportation to and from work is considered taxable income by the IRS, plus you as an employer have to report it and pay taxes on that income as well. ?????ÿ
this one depends on how the company is doing the federal deduction for taxes etc.
only one company I worked with ever did this, and they also nickeled and dimed everything and had a high turnover rate to boot.
My home is a satellite office and I go portal to portal from there.?ÿ?ÿ
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By the statement above in bold, do you mean you are aware of some section within the tax code that allows the personal use (commuting) of a company vehicle to not be taxable income
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do you mean that the requirement is exactly as FL/GA points out, but there are companies that choose to ignore that requirement?
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Yep.
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In all of the private companies (govt work is tax free for the discussion) no one has ever (except my one example) foisted the idea of us being taxed on the use of company vehicles, because it was 100 percent company time. To and from job sites.?ÿ
Isolation of commuter use is asking for red flags and or abuse and misuse and extra work.
I guess I'll stop typing about it because I don't want to be accused of pulling back the cover of the usages of the companies that don't seem to be applying this part of the tax code...them again, let them prove it's not being applied correctly.
It's all about the whole perspective I suppose.
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And a rip right fr the regulations:
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Some employer-owned vehicles are known as ??qualified nonpersonal use vehicles,? and all use is a working condition benefit.
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Typically, a vehicle the employee isn??t likely to use more than minimally for personal purposes because of its design qualifies as a nonpersonal use vehicle ?? such as a tow truck or school bus.
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See the description of qualified nonpersonal use vehicles to sort out when employer provided vehicle use is taxable and how to value the personal use of an employer-owned vehicle, read Publication 15-B, Employer's Tax Guide to Fringe Benefits as it's the primary resource on the topic of fringe benefits. Visit Section 3 ??Fringe Benefit Valuation Rules? for the valuation rules on vehicle use. In general, the fair market value of an employer-provided vehicle is the amount the employee would have to pay a third party to lease the same or similar vehicle on the same or comparable terms in the geographic area where the employee uses the vehicle.
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The cents per mile rule, the commuting rule and the lease value rule are the three methods to calculate a value for personal use of a vehicle - but you must use the method that corresponds with your unique facts and circumstances.
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Section 4 of Publication 15-B, Employer's Tax Guide to Fringe Benefits, discusses the tax code requirements for withholding, depositing, and reporting taxable noncash fringe benefits.
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An employee??s personal use of an employer-owned automobile is considered a part of an employee??s taxable income and it??s vital to to document business use.
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If you can??t determine business versus personal use, the IRS deems the use 100% personal to the employee.
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Any use of a company-provided vehicle that isn??t substantiated as business use is included in income, according to the rules in Pub. 15B.
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For the latest information about Pub. 15-B, such as recent legislation after its published date, go to IRS.gov and type Publication 15B in the search bar. Click on the PDF and download the publication.
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Thanks for watching. Have a wonderful day.
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So if you're using the vehicle to do personal stuff, you're treading on thinner ice.
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In all of the private companies (govt work is tax free for the discussion) no one has ever (except my one example) foisted the idea of us being taxed on the use of company vehicles, because it was 100 percent company time. To and from job sites.?ÿ
I think the "...100% company time.?ÿ To and from job sites." is where some people may be surprised by regulations.?ÿ Not knowing all the details, it sounds like the company that "foisted" the idea was actually complying with the tax code while the other companies chose to ignore it.
The whole scenario brings up an interesting (to me) discussion that I'll put in a new post so as not to hijack this thread beyond company vehicles.
