CA Supreme Court decision on GIS open records

In Texas, some assessors will provide you a text file of taxpayers in their county.
Some will provide you a shape file if they have a GIS graphic file.

Some county clerks allow private parties to scan the deed records if they make
a proper Open Records Request.

A few counties will only let you use their on-line deed search. Most clerks do not
have an abstract or survey index which would be valuable to the land surveyor.

> In Texas, some assessors will provide you a text file of taxpayers in their county.
> Some will provide you a shape file if they have a GIS graphic file.
>
> Some county clerks allow private parties to scan the deed records if they make
> a proper Open Records Request.
>
> A few counties will only let you use their on-line deed search. Most clerks do not
> have an abstract or survey index which would be valuable to the land surveyor.

About the same mix here in Ohio. The standard established by this case for California has been the norm in Ohio for some time. Government agencies may not make a profit from selling public domain data.

The importance of the case is that the database is recognized as separate from the software used to view it. Orange County was trying to "license" the data/shape file and make a profit doing that.

It mostly boils down to who pays for the information. If the data is already in an electronic format then the reproduction costs are nil.

In OC the data center would charge for every copy. There is an online data search engine that allows finding the information. Then you have the option to purchase it electronically. Which always rubbed my goat. The data resides in a computer somewhere and the request is processed by a computer. The operational costs have got to be nominal. Seems like they have been milking that goat a long time. Other counties around us have been open-sourced for some time now. We needed a court order to pry it open.
Finally! 😀

Make a profit or just try to recoup their original capital investment? They don't give away that software or the enormous work spent organizing it. The more they recoup, the less they have to tax.

didn't they justify the enormous expense of compiling the information by saying how much it would save them in the long run? of course they did. Every department touts GIS as a cost savings tool and then they turn around and charge citizens outrageous fees to access information that the citizens have already paid for. I am sure they are already looking at how they can purchase a new UAV with the fees. The money is not returned to the coffers it is used to make their budgets larger.

>>The more they recoup, the less they have to tax.

That's a slippery slope, Cliff.

> It mostly boils down to who pays for the information. If the data is already in an electronic format then the reproduction costs are nil.
>
> In OC the data center would charge for every copy. There is an online data search engine that allows finding the information. Then you have the option to purchase it electronically. Which always rubbed my goat. The data resides in a computer somewhere and the request is processed by a computer. The operational costs have got to be nominal. Seems like they have been milking that goat a long time. Other counties around us have been open-sourced for some time now. We needed a court order to pry it open.
> Finally! 😀

You got it. That's a great decision IMHO.

> Make a profit or just try to recoup their original capital investment? They don't give away that software or the enormous work spent organizing it. The more they recoup, the less they have to tax.

In Ohio the original capital investment has traditionally been viewed as part of necessary operating costs. I believe there may have been a case relating to photo copies many years ago. The topic has been addressed at state level GIS and Surveying conferences. Presenters made it very clear that the cost of office equipment, computer hardware, computer software and operating overhead must come from tax revenue and can not be recouped through additional charges for services required to be provided by law. Specifically public records are to be made available for public inspection during normal business hours at no cost. The reproduction of copies of any public record is restricted to the cost of producing the copies requested.

Think of the transition from manual typewriter to electric typewriter and finally computer with word processing. Each time a similar product is produced to meet a requirement of doing business. However, buying a manual typewriter for an office today would be viewed as inefficient.

Don't start the party just yet. Remember that the court said "For the reasons above, we reverse the judgment of the Court of Appeal and remand to that court with directions to remand to the superior court to issue a writ consistent with this opinion."o.O This decision will get sent to the appeals court first then forwarded to the local "superior" court with instructions to issue the writ originally requested. The county may then question details of the writ and ask for clarification from the court.:pinch:

Around here, many county GIS departments have simply exempted themselves from the open records laws. This is done by reading a proclamation that you are exempt into the record in a midnight session. I am not sure how exactly the process works but I am sure that several of these counties want in excess of $500/yr for the database. I have been told that this is all completely legal. I reply that it may be legal but it certainly immoral. There are some counties that have decided to do what is right and give the taxpayers the records they have already paid for at little or no cost.

Dallas, it was pretty simple here in Ohio.

Many County Recorders were still charging one or two dollars for a copy when their costs had dropped to a few cents.

Personally, I began using a camera in some recorder's offices as it was cheaper and usually produced better images. I remember that when some of these recorders saw their revenue source start to vanish, the real truth of it all soon came out: we were endangering their "coffee, doughnut, and Christmas Party Fund" which ran to thousands of dollars.

Luckily the lawyers were in the same boat as we were and the current law was passed.

In Kent-land, Williamson County, sells each terabyte copy of the clerk's records for $5000+.

Last she quoted me, an update, weekly or monthly, was another $5000+.

Nueces County, sells all the deeds and plats scanned, for $35 on your terabyte drive. (Corpus Christ)

Your right. The taxpayers have already paid for it.

In Louisiana, Senator Breaux (or former, ask Frank) brought to the attention
of several government officials, that the Louisiana taxpayer was getting dinged
as many as three times.

The parish government would charge:

All of its cities for the data

All of its departments for the data

Any state or federal agency who wanted the data

Any neighboring parish who wanted the data

Anybody else who wanted the data

> ......This decision will get sent to the appeals court first then forwarded to the local "superior" court with instructions to issue the writ originally requested. The county may then question details of the writ and ask for clarification from the court.:pinch:

I know this isn't very professional but... oh poop on that! How much tax money is the bankrupt county going to blow to defend what other counties acknowledge is the public's right to the information! They have been charging for 10 years (at least) for electronic data! They must have recovered the cost of the GIS system and then some by now.