The situation on my property is several (6) surveyors all come up with different boundaries for my property. ?ÿWe are talking about discrepancies of 3-20?? in a small subdivision with half acre lots. ?ÿWe have three original monuments that separate multiple parcels and a newer boundary agreement monument set 22 years ago. ?ÿI have two parcels that used to be two different neighborhoods with two plats but is now annexed. ?ÿThe subdivision was created in 1950.
Surveyor number 1 shows up and does a retracement survey and restored one lost monument per the descriptions in all deeds. ?ÿ
surveyor number 2 shows up within hours representing the adjoining tract and disputes his mark before doing field work himself. ?ÿHe supplants Number 1 and gets him to dig up his iron and not complete work for us, no charge. ?ÿ Survey number 2 is related to the adjoining owner, then conducts his field work and sets an iron 9?? away from number one even though he said number one was off by 3??. ?ÿHe also sets a stake over 3?? away from the original monument that is described the boundary between four parcels.
surveyor number 3 conducts field work, holds the original monument but agrees with the newly set iron 9?? feet away. ?ÿWe show him the evidence and he then refunds us our money. ?ÿ?ÿ
surveyor number four does field work, says the new one is wrong, talks to his friend/colleague number 2 and decides not to complete work for us no charge.?ÿ
surveyor number 5 does field work and tries to explain how the original monument that is documented is not our corner and that number 2 is right. ?ÿAfter showing him the evidence, he says he would need to do more field work, then backs out no charge. ?ÿ
Surveyor number 6 does field work and holds one monument in another lot with the control points. ?ÿIt shows the the original documented boundary being around 7?? away from were it ??should? be and doesn??t agree with the deeds that describe it as the corner of four parcels. ?ÿ?ÿ
so we have a situation where surveyors will not retrace our boundary monuments which coincides with all adjoining deeds and restore the lost monument. ?ÿ
we built a fence set back three feet from what the deed says and are being sued by the adjoiner for land that their family/surveyor put in. ?ÿ
my question would be, what are the land principles about holding monuments that have been in place and observed for over 70 years? ?ÿ
at what point can you change the parallel bearings for each lot??ÿ
is it proper to prorate distance and disregard parallel lots and original monuments? ?ÿ
Welcome to Chaos-Ville!
I have a few questions. Are you hiring these surveyors? How much money are you out on surveyors? I feel like you could benefit from some "professional" surveying. Have you received any signed plats?
A shortage of $ can lead to the conditions you describe.
And, what city, State, and subdivision is this?
We are willing to help, but this kitchen seems crowded, and like there is a lot going on.?ÿ
Nate
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Nate I think it is in North Carolina.
If it's North Carolina there should be shiny coordinates all over the place to save the day. (Joke, joke, joke)
Hi Nate,
We have hired all but surveyor number 2. We have yet to pay anyone anything because they haven??t completed the job. Two of them backed out after doing field work. One of the refunded the 50% up front after not demonstrating the the deed on the ground.
We are in Waynesville, NC. Haywood county. We have not received any signed plats. We have a learned a little from each surveyor that comes along and reveals new information. To date, not a single surveyor has or is willing to hold the original monuments on our property and plot out what our deed says. We purchased deed plotting software and if you go by the calls and the monuments it??s closed within 1.5?? margin of error.
Haha, I don??t get the joke, but I??m sure it??s funny.
I have called countless surveyors in and around the region. Most don??t want to get involved in litigation or the have a ??conflict? of interest. Conflict being the key word here.
I smell a rat here.?ÿ This will probably require researching all of the deeds for adjoining tracts since the subdivision was created.?ÿ There is far too much area in dispute for such small tracts.
The joke I was making about shiny coordinates relates to discussion previously on this board about the platting rules for surveyed tracts in North Carolina today that dictate the surveyor is to report standard coordinates for the tract corners, or something close to that.?ÿ That is not a common requirement in all 50 states.
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but if 6 Surveyors can't figure it out you might be in for some large expenditures to rectify things. As a previous small business owner for 32 years, and with the knowledge you provided about the property in question, I wouldn't touch the job. A large firm would likely perform it (not knowing it will most likely end up in court) for a breathtaking fee. Your best bet at this juncture might be to try and work out a boundary agreement between yourselves (even if you hate each other), it would be the most economical route for all parties involved. Best of luck.
?ÿ @holy-cow North Carolina does have an abundance of NGS marks, some shiny and some not. As you go west into the mountains (hills to you Rocky Mountain folks), they can be sparse, though, and Haywood County borders Tennessee. If you compare, say, Guilford County with Haywood County on the NGS data explorer, you'll see a big difference in the coverage. I thought that was what you were joking about.
Here's a link to an NC Board of Examiners for Engineers and Surveyors presentation that may offer some insight into the other thing. Apparently, it was presented in 2013 and uploaded in 2019, so it may or may not be completely applicable now. https://www.ncbels.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Tie-Guidelines-and-Report-of-Survey-Presentation-11-22-2013.pdf
Please pardon the interruption and carry on.
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@flga
This parade has been rained on for 8 months. Yes, we have spent quite a bit for an attorney. Firms large and small have said the same, they don??t want to get involved or there is a conflict of interest with the neighbors surveyor.
The neighbor has avoided talking to us about this boundary they are disputing for over 8 months and are suing us using their cousins map. The problem with the cousins map is that he ignores the original monument and sets a stake 3.3?? away. He then reports a line at N 1?ø East, which is what the deeds say, but his stake is 6?? away from where he reports it.
This has all come about because the neighbors want to use our land/yard to park a car instead of using their own property.
Our strategy at this point is to get a surveyor to map out our deed using the original monuments as a ??boundary agreement?. Take that to a judge and let them decide. Other evidence we would present is our deed which describes this monument as the boundary between four parcels and the other adjoining deed as well states the same.
At what point would a surveyor or a judge decide that a monument described as a boundary between four parcels not be the boundary? Also, if a surveyor or judge decides it is in fact the boundary as documented, would you use the metes and bounds call from both deeds?
Your strategy as well as your following 2 questions are best answered by your Attorney.
There are many Surveyors here with more expertise than me, perhaps a solution will pop up after more have viewed your post.
The description you posted refers to boundary line agreement so you need that for sure.
The subdivision could be seriously messed up making it difficult for Surveyors to stake boundaries with confidence.
Yes, the boundary agreement is for the back tract, not in dispute. This was done in 1998 and the surveyor describes the monument in question as the boundary between four parcels. For some reason multiple surveyors will not acknowledge this.
If you plot out our deed and hold these monuments, it closes with a 1?? margin of error.
Appears to be a protracted (not surveyed) subdivision 1950's.?ÿ May not be sufficient evidence to prove any one location over another.?ÿ I do this type of work, but not licensed in NC.?ÿ 5k-10k, plus another 5k or so for court prep and testimony; I imagine you could find someone in NC that provides this type of service.?ÿ Plus attorneys fees 5k-30k (for each party) depending on appeals or not.?ÿ No guarantee of outcome.?ÿ So, you might be better off not finding someone that offers this type of service.?ÿ Instead, work toward an agreement or concede; depends on value of the area to you.
Developers want quick and cheap division of lands for sale to make the most profit.?ÿ Many years later these problems crop up. This is why now there are subdivision regulations requiring setting of monuments and ties to coordinate systems (as mentioned by Holy).?ÿ The fault (if one is looking for that) is with the original developer, not with the current surveyors.?ÿ It may seem inappropriate that the surveyor is a cousin of your neighbor, but I highly doubt that has anything to do with it.?ÿ Six or Seven hemming and hawing just illustrates the evidentiary problem in these old paper subdivisions that produced little or no original surveying field work.
Surveyors are required to retrace established boundary lines. When the record data does not work out and "fit" within the adjoining data, nor does it match any established corner monuments, then you have a "fatally ambigous" record and no surveyor is able to merely stake it on the ground. Additional evidence is required. The existing boundary agreement is a red flag. Hire a surveyor to collect all relevant data, the prepare a plat showing all measured gaps and conflicts. In Colorado 38-51-106(k) requires surveyors to plat all conflicting boundary data. Pay up front. When this plat is delivered, if there are any unresolved boundaries, seek another boundary line agreement or quit claim any sliver that overlaps. This is by far the easiest of your options. There is no such thing as winning in court.
Thanks for your response.
My question for surveyors, why wouldn??t you run out the deed calls from the existing and established documented corner monument to retrace the boundary? I have yet to get a surveyor to do just that. They all want to redesign the neighborhood and change established lots. We find ourselves in this situation because the neighbors are disputing what is on record. We do want to come to an ??agreement? with these neighbors and settle, but I have to know the baseline which is the recorded line. Where does the paperwork say it is before we make an agreement.
