We were in a boundary dispute with our neighbor in New York State. We both had a survey done. Our surveyor used the deed description to determine a corner and set a pin. Our neighbor had a survey done as well and that surveyor used an old fence to place a pin. We filed an Action to Quiet Title suit and went to trial. The judge ruled our surveyor's survey to be the accurate one and the other survey to be invalid. To prevent future confusion we want to remove the invalid survey pin. Is this an acceptable thing to do?
I found this response online. Can any of you surveyors comment on this?
Once a situation is resolved by agreement or court action, removal of pipes, posts, stakes, etc. is quite appropriate because they have been determined not to be "monuments" of land boundaries. Leaving them in at this stage only creates monuments to a failed opinion, unless of course they are needed to tie to something else.
I would suggest you ask your lawyer and your surveyor this question. I feel they would be the best to give you specific directions on this.
I would suggest you ask your lawyer and your surveyor this question.
...and hopefully get a written answer for your records.
Isn’t this a legal question? Why ask his surveyor?
If the pin fits the legal description, it should stay in place. Until new descriptions are prepared and recorded, it is the pin of record, albeit not the boundary corner. Often, you have to survey the “no longer the boundary” line before you can apply the “agreement”, “judgment”, “decision” or “determination”. Judges rule their opinion, but rarely order the parties to fix their description or survey. That is why you do not go to court. County and Circuit Judges do not understand deeds, plats, rules or laws; but they do understand possession. Did the defendant meet all of the measures for relief required by the State of New York? Was the plaintiff’s attorney able to explain all of these relief measures to the judge? It is my opinion, No and No. Which is why MOST land cases get overturned in appellate court. A quite title action was probably not the best avenue to solve this problem. No one is not going to be “quite” when you asked to give up part of their yard. Yes, I know I don’t have all of the pertinent details to render a profession judgment, but the above is only a personal opinion response to an internet community social forum.
Sounds like a question for your attorney. Usually, if the matter is settled in court, then the invalid pins can be removed. Sometimes the surveyor that set it will remove it if it’s invalid. Again, you should consult with your attorney and or surveyor because laws may be different for other states.
I've only encountered this situation once. My client, the prevailing party, asked me to remove the other surveyor's marker. I declined, saying that he should ask the other surveyor to do it, and that it doesn't matter anyway, as the judgment references my Record of Survey, which shows the other monument out of position.
The pin may be correct for some other tract that was not part of the court action. This is part of what makes this so confusing.
Judges are human, dang it. They make mistakes. Their rulings can be challenged. What appears to be the end of it today, may not be the final resolution. Even then, the resolution is only for the parties having the dispute. It does not resolve any other question another surveyor may have about an abutting or nearby tract.
I was involved in a court case where the judge had already made up his mind before any testimony was provided. Small town situation. He did not like the one filing the suit and he REALLY didn't like his attorney. The judge ordered the court would have a survey performed by Slipshod Surveying. They obviously determined where the center of section should be and then worked backwards to FIND bars that were super shiny and not present two weeks prior to their survey in the places where they found them. A couple were still a couple inches out of the ground, where anyone in the area would have tripped over them. The judge went with the court's surveying firm's answer, which happened to match exactly where a new fence had been built prior to the survey by four weeks. That's what had brought on the law suit in the first place.
You should notify the adjoining landowner, ask that they remove it in a certain amount of time or you will. Sounds like it has no purpose anymore. But it's still a surveyors marker and personal property of the adjoiner if they paid to have it placed. Destruction of personal property is not allowed even if placed on your property (you could be liable for damages), and removal of a survey marker is also against the law in NY. If it's actually on the adjoiner property there's nothing you can do.
As HC says, just because it isn't marking your boundary doesn't mean it isn't marking a boundary going in the opposite direction for neighbors.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here.
You went to court, won, and the other surveyor's monument now represents the incorrect corner location, right? Which means that it basically exists only to add confusion in the future.
If it were me, I'd take the court decision as authority to do something about it. Probably best to notify the neighbor and the other surveyor first, give them the opportunity to do the right thing, though
We did ask our lawyer and he told us to ask our Surveyor. We asked our surveyor and he was not sure as he never ran into this before. He is asking another surveyor who has some experience in this area and we are awaiting his reply.
Our survey was done first and was based on the deed description. The other property is a remainder deed with very vague boundary descriptions. Our property line was described in the 1800’s and has not changed since. The other pin no longer represents a corner as the Judge ruled the survey was based on inaccurate data. The other pin also has no bearing on neighboring properties as it does not meet any other property lines.
We were the plaintiff’s in this dispute and our lawyer asked the Judge to affix the ruling to both property deeds. This particular piece of property is heavily wooded and rarely used by either party. We have owned the property for 30+ years. The neighbor just bought the property and started taking possession of our property. He is and has been hostile toward us so calling him to ask him to remove the pin would awkward to say the least.
The invalid pin is actually on our land. We are concerned if the land changes hands in the future it would be confusing to have this pin remain when it no longer marks a legal corner. Our neighbor actually removed 400 feet of fence we had on our line and the court did not require them to reimburse us for damages (we did not ask for reimbursement as we just wanted to property dispute settled and did not want to incur additional costs to quantify the damages).
From what we understood in court our neighbor didn’t even pay all he owed the surveyor. He was not called in court to back his survey by either party. The chances the surveyor will come all the way out just to remove the pin on behalf of a client that stiffed him is pretty slim.
LONG LIVE THE PIN CUSHION!
Surveyors...
Not willing to commit because "only land owners or the court" can set a boundary.
Land owners couldn't agree, so the boundary is adjudicated by the court.
Surveyors still won't commit because... reasons.
Typical.
