Moving Titled Monuments

If the surveyor has evidence that the original piece of iron isn't in its original location then yeah. It's very likely that the monument has already been moved and he is putting it back where it originally was. It could also be a very bad decision to move the monument if the only evidence are the numbers in the deed. Really, there isn't enough information given to answer the question.?ÿ ?ÿ

Adam is correct.?ÿ We would need far more information to make worthwhile judgments of your situation.

Sometimes monuments get moved by "someone" over time.?ÿ Sometimes a surveyor has justification to determine the first surveyor's work was incredibly bad.

I was discussing such a case with another surveyor today.?ÿ A monument was set about 25 years ago in a location that is clearly not the correct location by about 50 feet.?ÿ It hasn't been moved, but, it was set incorrectly.?ÿ Ignorance is bliss sometimes when the boss wants a job finished under budget.

@holy-cow
So far, no evidence has been found or shared that the monument isnƒ??t in its original location. It is near a power pole which apparently has made it hard for anyone to find any other monuments in the area. None other exists or have been found thus far.

That is the narrative at the moment, that the original surveyor made errors in his day, some 70 years ago.

What we have are multiple deed descriptions describing this monument where it is. We have acts of possession and acquiescence to this monuments.

Do you change the original surveyors work and monuments that would shift everyoneƒ??s lots in the neighborhood? We are talking about small parcels .3-1 acre lots in a small neighborhood, not 100 acres lots.
It seems peculiar to me that a professional would want to set a new pin 3-12 feet away to establish a new corner, when this one is already established....

It is fairly common to discover fence builders and power/telephone pole technicians have moved monuments that interfered with their work and reset in hopes no one notices what they have done. When you say 3-12 feet do you mean three inches or two different potential locations which are three feet away and 12 feet away from where expected?

@holy-cow
It may be common, although this monument has been there in that location since 1959, per the surveyor who describes it in the deed as the corner of the four parcels.
Each surveyor has a different opinion, one says 3.3 feet, another say 7 feet, another says 10 feet. Which the problem with that is, it doesnƒ??t respect the properties on the other side and would further shift everyoneƒ??s lots around.

Is it unreasonable as a homeowner to get your titled described property surveyed on the ground with the original monuments that line up with said descriptions?

You cannot do either in Idaho unless you contact the original surveyor and resolve the discrepancy.?ÿ There are a few more nuances to the new code but that's the short version.

@wa-id-surveyor
What if he has gone on to survey the great beyond?

An ancient monument should not be removed without clear evidence that it has been disturbed.

Again, without the actual facts, we cannot speak to this situation.

@wa-id-surveyor
Original surveyor passed away in the early 1960s

The original question provides too little information, in my opinion. The original question also begs the question of the competency and integrity of the current surveyor and the original surveyor.

I am pleased to see that none of the professionals here took this bait. We cannot condemn a fellow professional without the facts.

I can say that ignoring an original monument is extraordinary in my experience, but not unheard of. Therefore, (without other information) my assumption must be that the professional involved had a good reason to do so.

@wa-id-surveyor
They donƒ??t want to remove it, they arenƒ??t saying it was moved, they want to reject the established corner and set a new one some three to twelve feet away from it.

It was just recently disturbed by a licensed land surveyor. It appears to be a three foot iron guard post and his detector got a hit underneath it. Shockingly he did not want to dig and find out what is underneath this common corner that he wants to now reject. He then tells me, the homeowner, I can dig it up. I feel like Iƒ??m in the twilight zone.

A survey that would shift many lots away from found monuments and present lines of occupation is wrong unless there is extraordinary evidence, beyond just deed numbers.

The phrase "titled monuments" is not usually used. Title is who owns a piece of property. Boundary is where the limits of that property lie.

Original monuments that have been relied on by property owners rule over measurements unless convincing evidence is found that they have been disturbed.

It is quite common that utility installation disturbs monuments, usually by removing them but occasionally putting them back in the wrong place. That would hardly ever result in shifting an entire neighborhood, though, as various monuments would tend to be moved randomly.

If only one or very few monuments can be found, then the scarcity of evidence leaves a wide range for legitimate surveyor opinions. You may need to get another surveyor's opinion.

@bill93
Thank you for your response!

The decision to set a new corner away from the original boundary that has been accepted over 60 years was based on platted distance.

The original boundary corner is known to have been in the same place since 1956-59. The power pole was set in 1955. Our deed was written and conveyed in 1956 and tract 2 in 1958. Multiple other plats have been surveyed using our corners as a reference point. I have seen several plats of the past 40 years using describing our corners. Which begs the question, why arenƒ??t my corners being honored in our plat? I havenƒ??t heard any extraordinary evidence, just a ƒ??I donƒ??t like itƒ? or ƒ??I donƒ??t know where it came fromƒ?

@holy-cow
There are cases where the boundary evidence lends itself to multiple alternative interpretations. Professionals may reasonably disagree. Measurement is an exact science. Boundary surveying is not. It is a matter of applying statute and case law that may conflict.

The thing to do is to get your 3 surveyors together and instruct them to reach an agreement. If they cannot you may need to turn the matter over to a judge.

@holy-cow
Thanks,

We are the defendants, defending our title. So far, no surveyors have completed work, or came to any consensus together.

I have attempted multiple times, to get a survey of my title with respect to the monuments found.

The first guy I hired did a normal title boundary survey and was forced to surrender the job to another surveyor representing the adjoiner.

It feels like the wild Wild West out here

Posted by: @jmk83

The first guy I hired did a normal title boundary survey and was forced to surrender the job to another surveyor representing the adjoiner.

Forced to surrender? Huh? I suspect that he saw the other surveyors evidence and solution and decided that it was as good or better than what he had.?ÿ

A surveyor you hired should be able to explain their decision to you. I would hope the other surveyor would as well.

Also, surveyors do not represent or advocate for the person who hires them. They are bound to give an opinion based on the available evidence regardless of who it favors.

I seem to remember that Justice Cooley had a pretty good understanding of these type issues. I do not know if it applies here or not. There are always 3 sides to every conflict... His, Hers and the truth. I'd like to hear the surveyor's side before rendering opinions.

@bill93
Yes, in normal situations I would expect that level of professionalism.

The adjoinerƒ??s surveyor is friends with them and share surnames. We spoke initially when he set his irons and then after that would not give us the time of day.

Surveyors we hired, will not give us any evidence of why they want to change the corner. They say they donƒ??t like it and it doesnƒ??t line up with distances. I wish they could offer more than that.

@norman-oklahoma
It was before the other surveyor did any work... hadnƒ??t done field work or come to any conclusions...