26 acres, if square, would be about a 4400 foot perimeter . In heavy underbrush that would mean setting a traverse point perhaps every 200-300 feet on average with lots of line cutting. So that's 18 traverse points at a rate of about 4 a day to collect the existing boundary. Then return for maybe 2 days to set out your line marks.?ÿ So we could be looking at 5-7 days of field crew time, and those guys need office staff supporting their efforts.?ÿ ?ÿIdaho is a recording state, so there is a Record of Survey map to be prepared and filed, and that is a significant effort. Probably a couple days of office time, at least.?ÿ I won't discuss billing rates here, but figure about 3x payroll. And these are not minimum wage earners by a long shot. That's a standard for all service industries of this nature, not just surveying.?ÿ ?ÿ
$16k might be a little on the rich side, but it is not unreasonable. Everyone in this business is crazy busy these days and understaffed, having to pay help a lot more than they did in 2014.?ÿ You might also consider that this is the middle of winter which will slow productivity in the field.?ÿ ?ÿMost years work slows up in winter and we are glad to have some work, even if it does mean cutting the profitability to the bone. Not this year.?ÿ So our services are getting a good price right now.
$2400 is stupid low. That basically covers 1 day in the field, with some office calcs. For that you should expect your corners to be dug up and flagged, perhaps. But that is not a "survey".
I suggest getting a second proposal from another reputable firm.?ÿ If the two cost figures are reasonably close, that's a good indication of the current value of the work requested.?ÿ But it's important that both proposals come from reliable operators; getting one from the Cadillac outfit and the other from a county employee who moonlights on the weekends won't tell you much.
@gr16 my answer is you got a fantastic deal last time. $16,000 is reasonable for roughly 4,000 feet of line plus any licensed professional has to do sufficient measurements and investigations to assure themselves that their survey upholds their obligation to you and your neighbors.
There was an older private surveyor in a nearby county who charged low rates like that, he did fantastic work for rock bottom prices. He was closing in on 90 when he finally retired. People retire or move onto greener pastures. If I worked in your county and knew the previous surveyor I may be able to reduce effort if I have trust in that surveyor. Maybe but don??t count on it.
GPS doesn??t work everywhere. Sometimes lay people think the surveyor is using GPS when they are not. GPS doesn??t save you money because survey grade equipment costs 10s of thousands of dollars and the skill and experience to use it accurately is not easy to come by. Also the equipment has a lifecycle, it has to be replaced every several years.
I'm not licensed in ID but one question begs to be asked.?ÿ You say the survey was completed and filed but were told that it wans't completed and is useless.?ÿ Which is the case?
Regardless of my question, the new surveyor will have to start the job from scratch, compile the information, do the necessary field work, analyze it, then, potentially have to set the corners where they belong.?ÿ I can assure you that $2,400 is not going to get you a professionally prepared survey on a property that size.?ÿ The corner markers you have now may or may not be the real corners, that's what professionals are paid to figure out.
GPS doesn??t work everywhere. Sometimes lay people think the surveyor is using GPS when they are not. GPS doesn??t save you money because survey grade equipment costs 10s of thousands of dollars and the skill and experience to use it accurately is not easy to come by.
Some years back I was asked by a client (environmental consultant) to come by his place and confirm some dimensions shown on a survey plan his neighbor had commissioned.?ÿ By the time I arrived on site the common boundary had been in litigation for some years and the client estimated that he had forked over $40k in legal fees to date. Presumably his neighbor had done the same.?ÿ
The site was in a grove of mature Douglas Fir trees fronting on the Kalama River. Definitely not GPS territory. Not even Javad. The client wasn't sure what kind of instruments the other surveyor crew had used, but he mentioned that they had stated that they were "having trouble getting a fix". Which, of course, means that they were attempting to use GPS-RTK in place where that was completely inappropriate. I traversed the line in question and got dimensions completely at odds to those shown on the other surveyors plan by tens of feet. As I recall the overall dimension was 90 feet different. I'm not exactly sure how those results affected the litigation but I do know that it was settled to my clients satisfaction within weeks thereafter.?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ
the client estimated that he had forked over $40k in legal fees to date. Presumably his neighbor had done the same ...
?ÿit was settled to my clients satisfaction within weeks thereafter.?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ?ÿ
I don't know how long the boundary line was, but regardless, that was an expensive strip of land.?ÿ As usual, it would have been much to everyone's benefit to compromise.
I??m not licensed in Idaho and I won??t offer any specific advice or validate what costs are there. After reading through the OP??s post I would suggest that there may be a context issue. Going on the presumption that these parcels are based on any kind of aliquot part (640 acres was mentioned), you really can??t survey just the existing parcel corners and see if they dimensionally seem right unto themselves. To really survey something like this a responsible surveyor would likely need to go out to the sections corners to make certain that the existing parcel corners are actually true in relation to the larger section and original parent parcel. It??s not just a simple matter of collecting a 30 second GPS shot on the corners you point out to the surveyor. Without casting a wider net, the surveyor putting his license number on the work for all time to come, will have no way of knowing if the section was broken down correctly and is in harmony with the surrounding parcels. I really don??t see how any survey outfit could manage more than a quick and dirty survey for $2400. Just doesn??t add up. Throw in dense tree canopy and having to run lines on the ground conventionally and there will be some very significant time involved. When you consider the legal expenses of a boundary lawsuit, both from the surveyor and your perspective, $16k could well be a bargain. That said you should shop around, but these things may not be straightforward to the average layman. Good luck!
It's impossible to guess all the variables at play. It is reasonable to say that first survey sounds unrealistically cheap. Maybe the guy had most of the information already and passed on saving. Maybe he lowballed it and did a crap survey. Nonway for us to know.
Moving forward, the new price doesn't sound out of line at all. By the time you tie the controlling corners, run the lines, research and prepare the corner records then record thr survey 16k might be a little light.
It was suggested earlier in the thread a new surveyor could just set stakes along the lines as already marked. That practice in Idaho will likely end up in front of the Board or a Judge. The suggestion to mark it yourself is equally as bad. You cannot mark boundaries without a license unless you own all the property both sides of the line or corner. Even then it's a terrible idea as you set yourself up for fights after selling later.
@mark-mayer we had a timber trespass case where the private owner??s Forester used a handheld GPS??he was 200 feet off into the state forest in places. Fortunately for them their logger must??ve sensed something was wrong (maybe the first flag was 30?ø off bearing in 50 feet or so was it) because not many trees were taken over the true line. This is deep in the redwood forest.
?ÿ
?ÿThe majority of the costs is generally in the records research rather than the fieldwork. If it was freshly surveyed yesterday with maps filed, by a reputable firm, it might be able to be done for under $1000. If it was recorded in 1880, with no work done since, with ambiguous property descriptions, it might be bid for $20k, with the surveyor still losing money in the project.?ÿ
When in doubt, ask your friends and neighbors if they recommend anyone. If nothing comes from them, get three proposals and be wary of any that come in super high or super low.
?ÿ
?ÿ
?ÿ
When we bought the one parcel, we also bought about half of the parcel next to it.?ÿ That parcel was a north/south parcel that ran alongside our east/west parcel.?ÿ All we did was extend the north property line of the east/west parcel to the east line of the north/south parcel and bought everything south of that.
that kinda sounds like a homeowner crafted legal description.
we need to see exactly what the Deeds say... copy please!
Depending on the terms that were used, and the specifics of the actual Township and Section, a Land Surveyor might have to do a full replacement and breakdown. Even in wide-open land with a clear sky above the bona fide controlling monuments... could be quite a bunch of work. Heavy timber? Wow.
Having existing things in the ground is a bonus only if they have some pedigree.
if they have some pedigree.
Also considering reliance by owners on all sides.
Where in Idaho is this?
Not even Javad.
I've gotten the upgraded Javad LS. And, moved up from T-2 on base, to T-3 on base. (This gives me full constellations).
I've not had to pull out total station in Arkansas, since I got Javad.
Tall dense timber, hills, mountains, everything. If it struggles, or runs slow, I shoot it 2x, or 3x.
Mark, it's most incredible. I've not tried it in 300' redwoods. And I'm sure that there are places on earth it would be more efficient to use conventional. But you should get a demo.?ÿ
Nate
?ÿ
I've not had to pull out total station in Arkansas, since I got Javad.
No doubt that your Javad is very good, and no doubt that it is a lot better than anything available in 2009.?ÿ But in the instant circumstance it wasn't just the tree cover, it was also the deeply incised gorge that the Kalama River runs through. Not even Javad can cut through earth and rock.?ÿ ?ÿ
As a rule, when you get into trees, look up, and see maybe 50% blue sky among the needles and leaves, you might hope to get enough satellites for a fix. When you get under mature D.Fir and Western Red Cedar you will probably see less than 10% blue sky.?ÿ?ÿ
