question concerning county road and property

  • question concerning county road and property

    Posted by zebraworks on November 25, 2020 at 5:44 pm

    Hi I attached a part of a survey map of a property (lot 8) that has southern property line straight along county road that runs nearly straight east -west.  I think this survey map is showing a 60ft road width with the property boundary line being 30ft from center of road (there was a PK nail set in road back in late 1980’s at time of survey but they do “chip seal” the roads around there so not sure if I can located it with a metal detector if it is even still there) I will hopefully find the rebar corner markers.   It looks like the survey shows an additional 30ft easement beyond the 30′ road  which seems excessive (not sure if that is for road or utilities??). 

    The road has nearly no shoulder and a minimal ditch and then a old t-post wire fence probably 8-10′ off edge of road.  the survey shows the property is 5.002 acres but the county GIS info on lot has 4.82 acres and the planner told me probably because the GIS lot detail info subtracted the 30ft easment along the southern edge.   I am wondering if this is unusual or pretty standard and if I want to put up a new fence do you think it has to be along the dotted easment line which is way further back than the old fence line which is probably not even the full 30ft from the center of road??  There is underground phone right next to overhead power poles along that edge of the road, the old fence is just behind power pole and phone line.

     

     

    daniel-ralph replied 3 years, 7 months ago 9 Members · 12 Replies
  • 12 Replies
  • peter-lothian

    peter-lothian

    Member
    November 25, 2020 at 7:58 pm

    The answer to your question lies in the terms of the easement. You should find the taking deed for the road and additional easement to see what they say. If your intended use (fence) will not interfere with the use of the easement, then you should be able to use your land as you wish. If the fence will somehow interfere or obstruct the easement use, then you will have to install it back further at the line of the easement.

  • Norman_Oklahoma

    Norman_Oklahoma

    Member
    November 25, 2020 at 8:19 pm

    Mr. Lothian is right, the final answer depends on the purpose of that easement. Not all easements are created equal. But usually fences go on the property line. So 30 feet back from the legal centerline, which probably coincides with the painted centerline near enough. Probably.  That would keep the poles outside of the fence.

    PK nails sometimes remain in place after 40 years but not often. Usually they pop out and disappear long before that. 

    It seems like your existing fence remnant is too close to the road to be on the right of way line.  

  • holy-cow

    holy-cow

    Member
    November 25, 2020 at 8:45 pm

    There should be a document explaining the 30 foot easement.  In rural areas that might be for a water line servicing the homes on the various lots.  The real issue is what happens when the beneficiary of the easement needs access quickly, say in the middle of the night, with heavy equipment.

  • jamesf1

    jamesf1

    Member
    November 25, 2020 at 8:50 pm

    What area is the Assessor using to calculate the property Tax? If the roadway is truly an easement and the Assessor is reducing the taxable area byexcluding the easement there are problems brewing…

  • jitterboogie

    jitterboogie

    Member
    November 25, 2020 at 8:55 pm

    @jamesf1

    i’d say so….they’ll be missing money from someone, lots of it I bet!!!

  • MightyMoe

    MightyMoe

    Member
    November 25, 2020 at 9:46 pm

    Looks like a typical plat with a 30′ wide utility easement along the lot line. However, the plat should explain it, probably there is a legend that describes the linetype used to show the easement line. Also there will normally be an owners dedication that describes the uses for the easement on the face of the plat. 

    Tough to give an answer without seeing the plat and without knowing the conditions on the ground, is the pavement shifted in the easement? Does the section line traverse the centerline of the constructed roadway. The centerline of the pavement might be 20′ from the north right of way and 40′ from the south. The fence being close to the pavement of what appears to be maybe a 20′ wide pavement improvement gives me pause. 

  • zebraworks

    zebraworks

    Member
    November 25, 2020 at 9:51 pm

    yeah, I originally just looked up the data on the property via the county GIS and it states it is 4.82 total acres in several places. I asked the county planner if there was legal lot status for this lot and he replied that it was at least 5 acres in size and was divided before a cut-off in 1999 and thus has legal lot status…I responded that it was only shown to be 4.82 acres and then I finally found the subdivision 1981 survey that showed it was 5.002 acres. when I told the planner that the survey shows it is 5.002 acres but the county lists it as 4.82 acres he responded that it may be that they deducted half of the county right-of-way. I figure it would be this easement (which is same size as half the right of way) to calculate that acreage (multiply the 271ft lot width by 30 feet then subtract from the 5.002 acres it ends up being 4.81536). I guess I will have to ask to see what this easement is exactly to know, a title company told me they charge for a non-insured report. the old fence isn’t even 30 feet from the center of the road but is beyond where the utility pole and phone boxes are. I don’t know how they calculate their tax sums.

  • holy-cow

    holy-cow

    Member
    November 25, 2020 at 10:04 pm

    In my State almost all rural roads are easements and the property description extends to the section line.  The County Appraisers office and their GIS workers first determine the true area of the entire tract then draw on the road easement(s) to arrive at a slightly smaller number of useable acres.  Technically, they only tax the useable acres so a 5.0 acre tract can be 4.9 or some similar number.  The descriptions the Appraiser’s Office puts on tax notices typically start at a point 30′ north and 30′ west of the section corner (or whatever the road easement widths are) and go around from there.  Stupid.

    Many times when there is a land auction the auctioneer may say something like, “This land is approximately 80 acres but is taxed as being 78.4 acres, so we will take the per acre bid price here today and multiply by 78.4 to arrive at the total purchase price.”  No one really wants to pay for the area within the road easement, if possible.  Occasionally the true acreage is more than 80 acres for the typical aliquot part due to how it was surveyed by the Government, so the final number could be over 80 acres.

     

    To be clear, the Appraiser’s Office does not make any allowance for other easements affecting the land.  So the 30′ easement shown here would still be taxable area.

     

    Different States have different practices, so check it out.

  • dmyhill

    dmyhill

    Member
    November 25, 2020 at 11:00 pm

    Call 811 before you dig…really.


    -All thoughts my own, except my typos and when I am wrong.
  • daniel-ralph

    daniel-ralph

    Member
    November 25, 2020 at 11:23 pm

    I’ve looked at the whole map and there are no clue as to what the “esmt.” is for. I will note that the number “30′” does not scale the same as the width of the 30′ road. The area shown under the lot numbers include the 30′ wide strip on the frontage for Sargent Road as it is stated so on Lot 4 and 1 of the map. I would expect that Sargent Road is owned by the County as it is “excepted” from the underlying legal description on the survey. However, you should check with the county public works regarding that issue.

    This type of map is what was called a large tract segregation which at the time (and still might be in your area) was allowed for parcels 5 acres or larger and you got credit for the road area fronting the lot. These segregations were not given much outside review and hence I find no project number assigned to it. 

    Search your title report or deed for information regarding easements here. My opinion is that if this map is the only source that calls out an easement it is likely just a line on a drawing. There is no declaration or granting statement or owners signatures on the map.  

    The surveyor had a coveted PLS number: 12342. He is no longer around that I am aware of.  

     

     

     

  • zebraworks

    zebraworks

    Member
    November 25, 2020 at 11:56 pm

    @daniel-ralph
    here is the entire map. I am pretty sure a natural gas pipeline travels north-south through lot 7 but don’t think it has anything to do with the ESMNT. marking. This is rural area and there is no water, sewer or gas services

  • daniel-ralph

    daniel-ralph

    Member
    November 27, 2020 at 5:32 pm

    Like I said, I have looked at the map. You have reached the end of free advice time. Employ a title company for answers.

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