What exactly is a cemetery?

> Someone asked this question. "If I have a loved one cremated and I scatter the ashes at a particular site, does that make the site a cemetery?"

My references are at the office and I am not; however I believe that Maryland law (both case and statutory) makes a distinction between "cemeteries" and "burial grounds" with a distinct set of rules for both.

Actually it's not the local planners - it's state code. A few years ago the stste code was amended requiring cemeteries (or any iteration there of) be shown on subdivisions. At least that's what I am remembering from when it was shown to me. So now as a routine matter we put on a statement that the crew did or did not observe a cemetery.

Have to constantly keep watch around here as there are many family plots from a century or more ago with rock and homemade tombstones.

I found dozens of these cemeteries before this went into effect in 1999.

Texas Health and Safety Code;

Sec. 711.011. FILING RECORD OF UNKNOWN CEMETERY.

(a) A person who discovers an unknown or abandoned cemetery shall file notice of the cemetery with the county clerk of the county in which the cemetery is located not later than the 10th day after the date of the discovery. The notice must contain a legal description of the land on which the unknown or abandoned cemetery was found and describe the approximate location of the cemetery and the evidence of the cemetery that was discovered.

(b) A county clerk may not charge a fee for filing notice under this section.

(c) The county clerk shall send a copy of the notice to the Texas Historical Commission and file the notice in the deed records of the county, with an index entry referencing the land on which the cemetery was discovered.

Added by Acts 1999, 76th Leg., ch. 703, Sec. 1, eff. June 18, 1999.

I had to research this to answer an enforcement case on cemetery plans and the legal counsel for our board is also the one for the Cemeteris and Funeral Board:

California Health and Safety Code

Larry, check out section 7002 and 7003

Dave,

We both know there is a huge difference between a note saying we didn't see any obvious evidence of a cemetery and there are no cemeteries on the property shown.

If state law requires something like the former and local folks are using that to require the latter, there is a big problem for the surveyor.

Larry P

The more the plan fails, the more the planners plan

It is interesting when defining cremation and burial. Cremation is viewed differently among religions, denominations, and view differently by "non-believers." Defining these terms could be a problem, to have the government or court define it would be controversial, to expect a surveyor locate ALL burial sites/cremation deposits/whatever anyone and their brother wants to call it on each and every property surveyed is impossible.... or insane.

Probably the best thing to say is "There is no visible evidence of a cemetary or burial ground on this property".

> Probably the best thing to say is "There is no visible evidence of a cemetary or burial ground on this property".

Mr. Versteeg, I like where you are going there but absolutely not. No way, no how.

We talked about that in class. Just because you bury something does not render it invisible. Much, much better to use something like .... no readily apparent evidence of cemeteries within close proximity to the boundary line.

The question is, will the planners accept that or will they reject it in favor of requiring a more definitive statement?

Larry P

> Probably the best thing to say is "There is no visible evidence of a cemetary or burial ground on this property".

Not quite.

Use Larry's version or this one:

There was no observed evidence of a cemetery or burial ground at the time of the survey.

Or "The surveyor did not observe evidence of ...."

B-)

Is scattering ashes on the ground considered different than burying the ashes in a hole? Is burying ashes in a hole loosely considered different than buring the ashes in a cardboard box? Is burying ashes in a cardboard box different than burying ashes in a metal container? Is burying ashes in a metal container different than burying an entire body in a metal container? Is the absence of an above ground marker different than having a visible marker?

I want my ashes and other junk coming out of the burner cast into the sea. I will be absorbed into the waters, evaperation will put me into the sky and I can polute the whole planet over time by riding in raindrops, returning to the sea and go somewhere different the next trip. See what all you yongsters have to look forward to, I'll be raining on your parade someday.:-P
jud

The cemetery note is required (Paragraph 5F) on a 2011 ALTA /ACSM Land Title Survey.

My question is “how do we know if some mobster or child molester didn’t burry his victim there, or a frontiersman or Indian, long past, was buried without a gravestone?”

Therefore, I put the following note on my ALTA’s:

TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, NO VISIBLE EVIDENCE OF CEMETERIES OR BURIAL GROUNDS WAS OBSERVED IN THE PROCESS OF CONDUCTING THE SURVEY ON THE SUBJECT SITE. NO EXCAVATIONS OR RESEARCH WAS PERFORMED DURING THE COURSE OF THIS SURVEY TO VERIFY THE EXISTENCE OR NON-EXISTENCE OF CEMETERIES OR BURIAL GROUNDS.

Regards,
Miguel A. Escobar, LSLS, RPLS

Was this actually a serious question? Couldn't one distinguish the difference between the word "cemetery" and a "grave" by simply reading their definition in a dictionary?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cemetery

"It seems that some of the planners in that area are requiring surveyors to put a note on their plats that there are no human burial grounds or cemeteries on the property shown on the plat."

I love that. Maybe our associations could lobby for other such requirements and laws to back them up.

Why do surveyors always reject the things they are asked to do rather than come up with a price and do it? They are offering you the chance to become the expert at locating burial and cemetery grounds. In fact, they have acknowledged you are one. Charge a professional fee for a professional investigation. There isn't any liability issue if you perform some research and thorough investigation. You can't be held to find the "missing link" buried 20,000 years ago.

But you can reject the offer and they will find someone who will do it. That someone will create a profession around it and bar surveyors from doing it. One more service you could have provided at a large profit that is scoffed off.

I just don't get it. Do surveyors not consider themselves educated and experienced professionals that can figure things out?

You can't have a profession that revolves around equipment such as GIS software or GPS operation, ground penetrating radar, etc.. On the other hand, investigation and analysis based on special knowledge, that solves problems for clients, is a legitimate basis for a profession.

Land boundaries will no longer sustain a profession. Surveyors have to be willing to expand their knowledge and locate these regulatory boundary concerns. The mortgage survey is dead, the subdivision showing only land boundaries is dead, the ALTA survey is close to dead (inspections such as those done with mortgage surveys and then affidavits of no change close to follow), those that cling to the old school will perish as well.

Think about how to perform the service and write a reasonable contract to do it, not about how to avoid the required language.

The real question is ..

what's the difference between a cemetery and a cemetary?

Yes, the Shoenstadt GA-72-DB will ....

Yes, the Shoenstadt GA-72-DB will detect dead bodies.

The real question is ..

Depends on the dictionary it's not in?

The real question is ..

It would not be wise to place such statements on any map or plat until Jimmy Hoffa is found. You jes' never know. :-X

Allright, so does this mean that every beach that people find it necessary to scatter their loved ones ashes at is now deemed a cemetery?