Submittals in State Plane on CD or USB

> A local Township is trying to amend their ordinance to have all Subdivisions and Land Development plans submitted on CD/USB in NAD 83 PA South Coordinates, AutoCAD compatible format.

For review or after approval?

Pretty common around here to submit subdivisions electronically after approval to facilitate putting the new lines into the GIS.

I would hope that the legislation includes something to the effect "if reasonably available".

While most are now using some sort of cad programs, not everyone is and not everyone has access to GPS equipment to tie it into state plane coordinates. So the legislation is basically saying you have to have computers, you have to have 6k +/- in cad software and 30k work of GPS equipment if you want to submit a subdivision application, not to mention the additional cost to the client if control is not readily available in the area.

When asked to provide digital files I usually will provide a pdf of the plan and a shape file of the parcels for inclusion in their GIS, I don't provide full cad files of the subdivision plan.

6K in software? Nah!! Less than half that.
Computers are the coming thing wheather we like it or not. And so is GPS. Perhaps you can set 2 iron rods on site and have a buddy GPS them in for you for a minimum fee.
99% of all the work we now do is on State Plane. Makes it easy to keep a data base. New job near an older on can be run off the same control points as before. Many jobs are sent out as PDF's. Days of the plotted print and/or blue line are coming to an end. We only plot copies for stamp and signature to record.
Small USB sticks are getting dirt cheap. You can get them looking like Angry Birds, skate boards or pumping dogs for a few dollars each at the 1GB level.

At this time I have only seen the first draft of the language. At this time it only states that when submitting plans you will need 3 paper copies and the CD/USB.

No explanation has been given as to why they even want this.

> No explanation has been given as to why they even want this.

FWIW - I use Autodesk Design Review for plan review in house to keep from drowning in paper (and to keep a digital record of my reviews and my staffs revisions). I can certainly see a review agency want to do the same for the same reasons.

Terry-

It would be great to have a digital software ability to run with a provided drawing so that if there was ANY attempt to modify it, the drawing would explode or lock up.

Fortunately we don't work in London, Ontario where this is the de rigeur:

From City of London (Ontario)

http://www.london.ca/d.aspx?s=/Consultant_Resources/PlanSubmissionStandards.htm#Legal_survey_Plans

Fair Use of Plan

The City retains the right to use, modify and/or distribute DWG file to third parties as it deems necessary, but in so doing all references to the original surveyor shall be removed.

and that is a definite breach of the Copyright Act.

Then, the "engineering plans" fall victim to this charming extraction of a schematic concept of ODCC per:

http://www.london.ca/d.aspx?s=/Consultant_Resources/PlanSubmissionStandards.htm#Engineering_Record_Drawings_-_Drafting_Standards_and_submission_requirements

Engineering plans are required to be submitted at two milestones of a project:

The approved construction drawings are required immediately upon final acceptance of the drawings in which case the submission will include a complete set of full sized paper prints signed and stamped by the Project Engineer, together with the associated digital files.
The post construction Engineering Record Drawings including signed and stamped mylar originals and their associated digital files are required upon final acceptance by the Geomatics Division.

And, there are two surveyors on staff !!!

Cheers,

Derek

Remember too that way back in the olden days we had to submit "archival quality" copies of plats. These were usually contact photo copies om matte film or india ink hand drawn copies on mylar.
Today's plotter inks are NOT archival quality. Get them wet and they are gone. No more good times squirting rubber cement thinner in a bottle marked "Water" on a co-worker's drawing and watching them faint. :-O The "Good Ole Days" are gone.:whistle:
The paper copies will be for recordation in the plat cabinets, the e-files are the modern day "archival" copies. CD's don't last forever, but loading everything on external hard drives can come real close.
Look to the thrill we had before when going from 51/4" floppies to 31/2" floppies to tapes to zip discs to CD's to DVD's. I would hate to try to download a 51/4" floppy now. There's no such hole in my pooter. Nor a 31/2". Nor a zip disk. Nor a tape reader.

LOCKING DRAWING FILES
(This can be done in actual AutoCAD, but not with Carlson)

When I send a drawing to someone and I don't want it to be tampered with, I use the following procedure:

1. Start a new drawing.
2. Enter MINSERT on the command line.
3. When prompted for the name, enter the full path of the drawing to protect.
4. For the insertion point, enter 0,0.
5. Enter 1 for the X & Y factor.
6. Rotation angle = 0.
7. Number of rows = 2.
8. Number of columns = 1.
9. Distance between rows = 0.
The drawing cannot be exploded or revised. ....

This drives some types up the wall!!:-P

CP-

TU

Will have to persuade SWMBO to try that.

Cheers,

Derek

NJ Wants Stick Drawings

Just the linework.

It gets twisted, squeezed and even scaled to fit into the GIS.

From what I recall they turn them into polylines when it is all fitted together.

They absolutely do not want all the survey stuff that clutters up the file.

Paul in PA

We prepare surveys in Alabama, Georgia, and Tennessee.

The only requests we have had regarding CAD files are when dealing with projects involving construction of utilities. We are often asked to prepare Record Drawings before the contractor can receive a certificate of occupancy. With these requests come details and checklists describing required layers, linetypes, and fonts. We have had files kick back if a water line was not a complete unbroken polyline (drawn from tap to terminus).

Not usually that bad. Just wastes an hour or so because the County GIS people don't want to spend any time on conversion.

Data includes property lines, etc., but I doubt if anyone really sees it as a plat. No descriptive text, monuments found or set, dimensions.
It would not suprise me if they plop it in at 0,0 but then scoot it over if it looks funny with their existing linework.

Georgia is working on digital submissions for recording land surveys. Biggest problem is that they need all original signatures on paper and then you have to scan the drawing. Cannot take advantage of that beautiful CAD to PDF or TIF image function.

NJ Wants Stick Drawings

Local municipalities and counties in FL have been requesting digital files in SPC for 12 years... I don't even bat an eye.

Now, if you think you're going to go down to the county and get all the hard work of your competitors on a DVD and have a gold mine to start your new firm with, good luck. As others have said, it gets boiled down into their GIS and your digital file goes to the digital landfill.

> The drawing cannot be exploded or revised. ....

However, the MINSERTed drawing can be WBLOCKed to provide full access to the drawing entities.

Thank you all for your comments! This does give me some ideas for questions in the public comments.

Thanks Again!
Terry