Kent
I'm beginning to follow your logic about determining elevations not being professional land surveying by statute because it doesn't relate to boundaries. If the BOR disciplined a surveyor for blowing an Elevation Certificate and it was appealed that would have to be the surveyor's argument, although I don't think it would win. If I was Judge Gardner, I'd read the part of the statute that talks about collecting survey data and preparing technical reports, combined with the fact that you stamped it as a professional surveyor and rule that you screwed up something as a professional surveyor, therefore the BOR has jurisdiction, but that's just me. Well, just me and a few other people.
The thing about stamping the EC being advertising, I am still struggling to follow. I don't stamp EC's as a form of advertising, I stamp them because the FEMA instructions say I have to and my state laws say I have to. I know, CA is not TX, but regardless of whether the statute defines elevation determination as professional surveying, wouldn't you stamp and sign a report of any kind stating an elevation that you determined? Not as a form of advertising, but because you're certifying that it was prepared by a licensed individual. I feel a "no" coming on, but hey, I'm just trying to learn here.
Kent
> I'm beginning to follow your logic about determining elevations not being professional land surveying by statute because it doesn't relate to boundaries. If the BOR disciplined a surveyor for blowing an Elevation Certificate and it was appealed that would have to be the surveyor's argument, although I don't think it would win.
Actually, you may not have considered this, but there is a significant liability for members of a licensing board who may be shown to have acted outside their statutory authority. I believe that they might even be personally liable for damages. On this purely practical level, this is why I think it is an exceptionally bad idea for a professional licensing board to get into any area that is outside the authority set out in black letters in the statute that empowers them.
> If I was Judge Gardner, I'd read the part of the statute that talks about collecting survey data and preparing technical reports, combined with the fact that you stamped it as a professional surveyor and rule that you screwed up something as a professional surveyor, therefore the BOR has jurisdiction, but that's just me.
The problem that you haven't managed to make disappear, however, is that the collecting of survey data and preparation of technical reports are only professional surveying to the extent that they are acts performed in connection with land, boundary, or property surveying.
There actually are more than a few property boundaries that are fixed by elevations. Tidal boundaries are one example, as are the boundaries of lands acquired for lakes and reservoirs that were described only as that part of a certain tract lying below a specified elevation contour. Property boundaries are not involved in determining the elevations of structures in Texas and I'd suspect the same is true elsewhere.
> The thing about stamping the EC being advertising, I am still struggling to follow. I don't stamp EC's as a form of advertising, I stamp them because the FEMA instructions say I have to and my state laws say I have to.
Nonetheless, it is advertising that one is a professional land surveyor using the medium of the rubber stamp or impression seal applied to paper. The act of signing and sealing a piece of paper doesn't make it into a boundary survey in Texas.
> I know, CA is not TX, but regardless of whether the statute defines elevation determination as professional surveying, wouldn't you stamp and sign a report of any kind stating an elevation that you determined? Not as a form of advertising, but because you're certifying that it was prepared by a licensed individual.
No, the reason I would apply my seal and signature to some product other than professional surveying as defined by statute is that it advertises the fact that I have proven a certain level of competence at something that professional surveyors are thought to be proficient at, such as making measurements.
For example, I've signed and sealed reports upon control surveys that have nothing to do with land boundaries. Likewise, I've signed and sealed maps of topographic surveys that involve no boundaries. The seal is an advertisement that one has a particular credential.
In Texas, a registrant may sign and seal ordinary correspondence on the same grounds. Some registrants even have their professional seals printed on their business cards.
Kent, the fact of the matter is that the Texas Board of Professional Land Surveying has ruled that Elevations are under their umbrella of regulation. (Megalomaniacs never let facts get in the way of their warped sense of reality). Therefore your continued delusional rantings on this forum are nothing more than mental masturbation, of which, you are very adept at!
> Kent, the fact of the matter is that the Texas Board of Professional Land Surveying has ruled that Elevations are under their umbrella of regulation. (Megalomaniacs never let facts get in the way of their warped sense of reality). Therefore your continued delusional rantings on this forum are nothing more than mental masturbation, of which, you are very adept at!
When you look at the world through a microscope for umpteen years one can begin to believe that this myopic view of the universe is the only view, add a dose of megalomania and well...you see.
The fact is that rather than focus on the crooks and crannies of the definition, Kent should use his cognitive abilities to help broaden the definition, include more under the umbrella not less.
Believe it or not some are surveyors to make money, not decipher if the mold on the bottom of the corner pipe is genetically compatible with the minerals that were added to the metal in 1893.
I am here for two reasons, to do a good job for the public good and make as much money as possible.
Kent needs to do what he can to help grow the profession not work hard to illuminate a microscopic definition.
To Kent's defense, I do understand that he is just doing his thing on the definition and is sincere and has a respectable arguement.
However, it is my viewpoint that he needs a better and more valuable goal, the goal of saving surveying in Texas and helping the surveyors there be able to make a desent living....through working towards broading the definition and saving the professional board.
> Kent, the fact of the matter is that the Texas Board of Professional Land Surveying has ruled that Elevations are under their umbrella of regulation.
Evidently you don't know how ridiculous that sounds. The TBPLS doesn't have the statutory authority to enlarge the definition of professional surveying as set forth in the Occupations Code. So any attempt to do so is simply unlawful.
Likewise the duties and authority of the board are set forth in the statute. What you want to argue is that the TBPLS has authority to perform an act because it has performed it. That's an extralegal view.
Is the governor mad at the Texas board because they didn't
take somebody's license because of some FEMA problem?
King Davis
I have seen surveyors with your attitude get their license jerked.
In Illinois, the board dismisses civil-law-suit-type complaints
all of the time. Let the courts handle it -- not the board.
> Is the governor mad at the Texas board because they didn't
> take somebody's license because of some FEMA problem?
As I understand it, that's pretty much the crux of it. I think that the board made a major mistake in not taking the highly defensible position that they have no statutory authority to regulate the determination of elevations of structures, that if elected officials expect them to regulate that activity, the statute needs to be changed to include it within the definition of "professional surveying".
