Preferred first job

One LS, one crew

(in the fashion of one shot, one kill). 😉

Posted by: @paden-cash

One LS, one crew

(in the fashion of one shot, one kill). 😉

While I agree with that in principle, it would really depend on the quality of the LS in question. Just because someone has obtained an "LS" doesn't necessarily mean that they know their butt from a hole in the ground (or are actually competent to perform a particular task, project, or undertaking). 😎 ?ÿ ?ÿ

I like "the more, the merrier" in order to get more and varied opinions.

My first surveying job at a municipal utility was with three party chiefs and three crews (no LS's, but lots of experience) and later at a Municipal Public Works with a dozen or more chiefs (some having an LS) and a dozen or more crews.

I learned something different from all of them.?ÿ What to do and what not to do.

Definitely a small shop, one LS one crew and one tech. Learn to work as a team - everyone has an important role.

My first job was 1 LS with 2 crews. But he wasn't a particularly good LS. In fact, he ended up losing his license a few years later.?ÿ

My 2nd job had 3 LS's and 2 crews, but 1 of the LS's was very much the dominant personality (his name was on the door), so it was pretty much as if there was one.?ÿ

Third job had 2 LS's, but, again, one was very much dominant.

And so on. I think it was my 6th job before there was more than one LS actually contributing LS things. Even then, there was one that very much dominant. Domineering would be a better word in that case.

The first time I was on a field crew with an LS - other than brief visits by office pukes - was the day after I got licensed.?ÿ ?ÿ ?ÿ

So I think that more than 1 LS can be a negative unless there is enough volume and variety in the work that each can have a free hand in their area.?ÿ?ÿ

Preferably not with a firm that goes bust less than year in...

I've worked with a smaller firm that had 5 licensed surveyors (4 in the office one of whom was the survey dept head & split the field & office 50/50, the fifth was a party chief who was licensed & left eventually). All 5 had their merits but one of them was also a PE and majority owner so everything "had to be done his way" at least so long as he was watching. But they all had their merits. The owner saw things in terms of money & efficiency, the others had their strengths in terms of mapping or data import & analysis in the office and two of them had vast field experience. Granted I was only a PE with them but after almost 7 years of being around those guys I think I may have missed my calling as a surveyor haha

To be honest, I really like the my first gig out of school working for a medium size engineering firm.?ÿ I'm looking at an old group photo & and can count six LSs plus including the president who was dual licensed and four crews.?ÿ There were a couple of other LSs that did not were not in the survey department.?ÿ It allowed me to work under multiple LSs and pull the good stuff from each, there was no real my way or the highway type.?ÿ Our project load was very diversified including a good mix of large subdivision, commercial, utility airport and highway projects.?ÿ The best thing was that I was hired along with another fresh of the press LSIT with whom I swapped office and field time in an order to make us both better surveyors.?ÿ?ÿ

Started with a company that had 3-4 crews and generally always had an LS (or close to taking the test) on the crew.

I was a fresh college grad and still foolish enough to think I knew everything.?ÿ?ÿ Luckily those guys didn't give me too bad of a time about that and shared a great deal of knowledge with me.?ÿ I was able to work on different crews with various people and see their perspectives.?ÿ Didn't really appreciate it at the time, but I think that is important.?ÿ Too often, we get stuck in one-way thinking and stick with something because (why - because).?ÿ If you are only working with one person who thinks that way, it may limit professional growth.

As a solo guy, I know I get locked into my way of thinking!?ÿ Luckily, this board and some friends push me to look at things from other's perspectives.

Start large as possible and end on your own.

I was blessed with two licensed (albeit one newly) PLS and one crew.?ÿ Ralph was a mentor to both of us.?ÿ Too bad the bottle took his life; many years after I moved on.?ÿ ?ÿ

My first job was with a small engineering/surveying firm in my home town. One LS and one PE, two crews at the most. Because it was a small operation, I got thrown into the fire out of necessity several times, running a crew on a Forest Service job before I had ever run an instrument (the LS camped with us the first week and taught me how to turn angles and use the HP 3805 to measure distances).

My next job, I was the only technical employee of a newly formed company (had a person who answered the phones 4 hours a day). More getting thrown in the fire. I did everything from all the drafting to construction inspection on Indian Reservations.

I next worked for a slightly larger firm in the Capitol of California, working for the best party chief I have ever known, who was an LS. That was the early 1980's and we remain good friends to this day.

I worked for a local utility company for a couple of years after that before going back to college. I mostly learned what not to do during that stint. None of the PC's were licensed and the one LS who ran the shop couldn't survey his way out of the parking lot.

Worked for a larger firm after I got licensed and was fortunate to have a very knowledgeable mentor who taught me enough that when he retired, I was no longer flying by the seat of my pants.

Went to the state government after that where I eventually ran a crew, managed the field operations, then managed the entire survey program with a staff of 35.

Looking back, working for small firms to start my career was invaluable, as it provided me with opportunities to take leaps that I wouldn't have likely taken on my own. I learned from almost everyone along the way, positive and negative. One PC I worked for wouldn't tell the crew anything about what we were doing, just barked orders. My first party chief in Sacramento included the crew (usually just me) on everything and often asked for opinions on how we should approach something. When I started running crews, I went with that model and it saved mistakes several times. If your rodman hasn't even seen the plans, how can they know when a stake is in the wrong place?

Like almost everything in surveying, it depends. I agree with others, having an LS doesn't always equate to being a good surveyor or a good mentor/teacher.

There are too many variables to provide a correct answer. I've had jobs with large and small firms that launched my career forward. I've also had jobs with both that squeezed the life out of me with little benefit. We all learn in different ways.?ÿ

I suggest taking a first job where there are opportunities for education. After that every new job should be beyond your ability.

Viewed in retrospect, the preferred first job is dependent on the preferred last job.?ÿ?ÿ