Warren Smith, post: 397355, member: 9900 wrote: The railroads started this concept 150 years ago.
Although the road laws allowing the establishment of public roads across private lands by local governments probably pre-dated the powers that various state legislatures conferred upon railroad companies to acquire rights-of-way by proceedings in eminent domain. In both cases, the general public good conferred by the existence of roads and railroads was widely acknowledged and there were abundant safeguards (in Texas) to guarantee that private losses were adequately compensated and that the corporations were answerable for their actions.
It does seem to be metamorphisizing into transportation of goods for public benefit.
Warren Smith, post: 397361, member: 9900 wrote: It does seem to be metamorphisizing into transportation of goods for public benefit.
Except in Texas there is no requirement to actually demonstrate a public benefit. The game is rigged in favor of the pipeline companies who definitely are not in the public service business but in the shipping-natural-gas-to-a-foreign-country business.
Ah, the international motive. Trumps federal interest alone. Pardon the pun.
Warren Smith, post: 397368, member: 9900 wrote: Ah, the international motive. Trumps federal interest alone. Pardon the pun.
What is particularly maddening about the Trans-Pecos Pipeline is that the pristine landscape is a major asset of the region that is being destroyed just so that some folks sitting on the 20th floor of an office building in Dallas or some other center of urban blight can make a shipload of money piping gas to Mexico, some of it possibly even for export overseas as CNG. In any just society, they would have to pay full freight for the damage that they're doing.
Yeah, we are facing a somewhat similar situation here in the San Francisco Bay Delta, where water from the junction of the Sacramento and San Joaquin Rivers has been diverted for transport to other regions of California for some time. A familiar pattern thoughout the West. In fact, the current withdrawal is looking to be expanded tremendously, to the detriment of said Delta region.
The missing piece in Texas is some actual regulatory authority that isn't more than a rubber stamp for corporate interests. It's rape and pillage on a grand scale with no one minding the store. Typically, it's the predatory corporations running the show with zero interest in the long-term consequences and costs of their schemes.
Kent McMillan, post: 397352, member: 3 wrote: Basically, the Trans-Pecos pipeline is a naked transfer of money/value from landowners and the public to private corporate interests with no general public interest served.
Yes, transparently it's a benefit to the corporation that operates the pipeline for profit and the corporations that own the natural gas that is shipped to Mexico via the pipeline for sale at higher prices than the domestic market would bring. That much is perfectly clear. The legitimate purpose of eminent domain is in service of the public good, which that one clearly is not.
I see you chose to ignore the next sentence in my post. Projects like this have a short and long term affect on the economy and good impact on the communities. Agree with it or not it's a fact I've seen first hand.
TXSurveyor, post: 397416, member: 6719 wrote: I see you chose to ignore the next sentence in my post. Projects like this have a short and long term affect on the economy and good impact on the communities. Agree with it or not it's a fact I've seen first hand.
Your point was basically that making a mess of the Big Bend landscape with a pipeline so that some billionaire can sell natural gas to Mexico or beyond is in the public interest because the folks who build the pipeline will stay at motels and eat at restaurants. It hardly seems serious since it is such a limited, short-term effect that can't possibly offset the longer-term damage.
By the same logic, presumably you would argue that the entire Big Bend should be turned into a series of low-level nuclear waste dumps because it will create jobs in the nuclear waste disposal industry.
Kent McMillan, post: 397417, member: 3 wrote: Your point was basically that making a mess of the Big Bend landscape with a pipeline so that some billionaire can sell natural gas to Mexico or beyond is in the public interest because the folks who build the pipeline will stay at motels and eat at restaurants. It hardly seems serious since it is such a limited, short-term effect that can't possibly offset the longer-term damage.
By the same logic, presumably you would argue that the entire Big Bend should be turned into a series of low-level nuclear waste dumps because it will create jobs in the nuclear waste disposal industry.
twist it how you want but a buried pipeline doesn't ruin the landscape. Do occasional above ground block valves ruin the landscape? Not hardly. Big Bend is a beautiful but desolate place. I'm sure the area could benefit from the short term money as well as the long term money. Did I mention the tax dollars, and jobs. It takes people to operate pipelines. I've been involved in close to 1000 miles of pipeline construction in 5 states. The story was the same in all areas, most locals were glad to see the increaesed business and sad to see it go. Guess what they increase their prices for non locals during these time, rightfully so.
Comparing a pipeline to a nuclear waste dump is illogical. You must be spending too much time on 6th street these days.
Have a good day
Well, let's be clear about the beneficiaries of the Trans-Pecos pipeline scheme. Per the Texas Tribune:
"http://www.wsj.com/articles/mexico-opens-energy-sector-to-private-investors-1407392884&apos ;">In January, a consortium including Dallas-based Energy Transfer Partners and Mexico's Carso Energy won a $767 million contract with the ComisiÌ?n Federal de Electricidad, MexicoÛªs federal electricity commission, to build and operate the pipeline. The consortium will also build the 30-inch-wide Comanche Trail pipeline, which would run from Waha to San Elizario, south of El Paso. It, too, has stirred angst along its proposed route, but those residents havenÛªt been as loud.
Kelcy Warren is Energy TransferÛªs CEO and chairs its board of directors. The Dallas billionaire has been a major supporter of former Gov. http://www.texastribune.org/directory/rick-perry/&apos ;">Rick PerryÛªs political endeavors and http://www.texastribune.org/2015/02/05/rick-perry-lands-corporate-board-spot/&apos ;">welcomed him to the company's board in February.
Warren is partnering with a fellow billionaire on the pipeline project. Carlos Slim, worth nearly $73 billion and the worldÛªs second-richest man, owns Grupo Carso, the conglomerate umbrella of Carso Energy. "
So, the Big Bend tourism industry that actually is large and sustainable is being destroyed so that some Mexican billionaire who is already the second-wealthiest person on the planet can get richer and a former governor can cash a check from the Mexican's Dallas billionaire partner?
Oil and now NG are objects of avarice of humans much like diamonds and gold.
People will accept no control to prevent their acquisition. Give no pause.
Take a look around...everyone is entrapped by these elements. Some more than other when it comes to
gold and diamonds.
Robert Hill, post: 397422, member: 378 wrote: Oil and now NG are objects of avarice of humans much like diamonds and gold.
People will accept no control to prevent their acquisition.
That's more the general lawlessness of Texas that is pretty much an inevitable result of so much wealth in so few hands without any effective government oversight aside from the wink and nod variety.
Kent McMillan, post: 397421, member: 3 wrote: Well, let's be clear about the beneficiaries of the Trans-Pecos pipeline scheme. Per the Texas Tribune:
"http://www.wsj.com/articles/mexico-opens-energy-sector-to-private-investors-1407392884&apos ;">In January, a consortium including Dallas-based Energy Transfer Partners and Mexico's Carso Energy won a $767 million contract with the ComisiÌ?n Federal de Electricidad, MexicoÛªs federal electricity commission, to build and operate the pipeline. The consortium will also build the 30-inch-wide Comanche Trail pipeline, which would run from Waha to San Elizario, south of El Paso. It, too, has stirred angst along its proposed route, but those residents havenÛªt been as loud.
Kelcy Warren is Energy TransferÛªs CEO and chairs its board of directors. The Dallas billionaire has been a major supporter of former Gov. http://www.texastribune.org/directory/rick-perry/&apos ;">Rick PerryÛªs political endeavors and http://www.texastribune.org/2015/02/05/rick-perry-lands-corporate-board-spot/&apos ;">welcomed him to the company's board in February.
Warren is partnering with a fellow billionaire on the pipeline project. Carlos Slim, worth nearly $73 billion and the worldÛªs second-richest man, owns Grupo Carso, the conglomerate umbrella of Carso Energy. "
So, the Big Bend tourism industry that actually is large and sustainable is being destroyed so that some Mexican billionaire who is already the second-wealthiest person on the planet can get richer and a former governor can cash a check from the Mexican's Dallas billionaire partner?
You are missing the point. Billionaires employee people. Its called the trickle down effect. Every survey you work on is a direct result of someone spending money, somewhere back up the line the money came from a millionaire spending money to make more money. I'm sure the tourism industry is sustainable in the Big Bend area but all areas could use multiple forms economic stimulus. I'm sure people in Detroit or the iron workers in the north east or the many communities in this country solely dependent on coal mining, or the farmers in Missouri, or the many O&G workers across this country that are laid off and wish they could find a job that paid 1/2 as much as they made while employed by the O&G Industry.
Kent McMillan, post: 397426, member: 3 wrote: That's more the general lawlessness of Texas that is pretty much an inevitable result of so much wealth in so few hands without any effective government oversight aside from the wink and nod variety.
.
It's pretty much of a global trait.
Look at the the blood spilled for oil, the blood diamond industry and the desire of some to sit on a "gold throne" even if it is in their bathroom.
Kent McMillan, post: 397289, member: 3 wrote: Okay, I've got to ask. How do you determine whether a proposed route will cross ancient burials just from examining the surface? I'd think that on DOT projects, SOP would be to stop construction if excavation uncovers evidence that the survey didn't disclose. Naturally, in the Ole Bidness, the sort of sleezy characters who run the show will be unlikely to be bothered by that detail.
It sounds like a lot more guys know more about this than I do. As far as I can tell we can't condemn for reservation land but I might be wrong. I am not versed in the law about this. At one time, I did some research as to how we were occupying highways in Colorado that was on reservation land. I found no cases where we actually acquired the property fee simple, especially by condemnation. (I suspect if we do have any land by fee simple ownership it's because they agreed to it). The best I found was being across it by right-of-way easement. For one State Highway all I could find was a temporary construction easement to build the highway, but no permanent easement at all.
From what i can tell, if we find any graveyards we avoid them completely. The environmental office is involved right away if there is possible environmental impact. I don't think they would let us go across any known indian burial lands, but I don't know the exact laws and rules regarding that.
TXSurveyor, post: 397427, member: 6719 wrote: You are missing the point. Billionaires employee people. Its called the trickle down effect.
I don't think that any intelligent person will be unaware of the unsustainable boom economy that the oil and gas bidness has been and will continue to be. As for wanting to work as some billionaire's yard man or pool boy, be my guest.
https://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/2015/08/20/in-the-land-of-the-oil-bust-the-repo-business-booms/
Every survey you work on is a direct result of someone spending money, somewhere back up the line the money came from a millionaire spending money to make more money.
Actually, that's so far from the truth that it's laughable. I can see how someone who is a hired hand to the billionaires might think that, though.
I'm sure the tourism industry is sustainable in the Big Bend area but all areas could use multiple forms economic stimulus.
Except for those activities that destroy the sustainable base of the Big Bend economy, that's true. Destructive, extractive industries are just the next bust waiting to happen, but the damage they do doesn't just pack up and leave with the gypsy work force typical of the oil & gas economy. That pipeline to Mexico can promote fracking activities in the Big Bend and the multiplication of gathering lines as well as eventually become the means for cheaper Mexican natural gas to be piped back into Texas.
I'm sure people in Detroit or the iron workers in the north east or the many communities in this country solely dependent on coal mining, or the farmers in Missouri, or the many O&G workers across this country that are laid off and wish they could find a job that paid 1/2 as much as they made while employed by the O&G Industry.
It should be obvious from recent history that the oil and gas booms aren't sustainable. Now, the repo business is the next boom.
Kent McMillan, post: 397430, member: 3 wrote: I don't think that any intelligent person will be unaware of the unsustainable boom economy that the oil and gas bidness has been and will continue to be. As for wanting to work as some billionaire's yard man or pool boy, be my guest.
https://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/2015/08/20/in-the-land-of-the-oil-bust-the-repo-business-booms/
I never said the O&G industry was sustainable. Its a feast or famine business, the industry brings the famine on itself.
Actually, that's so far from the truth that it's laughable. I can see how someone who is a hired hand to the billionaires might think that, though.
I wouldn't consider myself a hired hand to billionaires as I'm self employed just like you. Are you a hired hand to your clients?
Except for those activities that destroy the sustainable base of the Big Bend economy, that's true. Destructive, extractive industries are just the next bust waiting to happen, but the damage they do doesn't just pack up and leave with the gypsy work force typical of the oil & gas economy. That pipeline to Mexico can promote fracking activities in the Big Bend and the multiplication of gathering lines as well as eventually become the means for cheaper Mexican natural gas to be piped back into Texas.
It should be obvious from recent history that the oil and gas booms aren't sustainable. Now, the repo business is the next boom.
Kent McMillan, post: 397430, member: 3 wrote: I don't think that any intelligent person will be unaware of the unsustainable boom economy that the oil and gas bidness has been and will continue to be. As for wanting to work as some billionaire's yard man or pool boy, be my guest.
https://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/2015/08/20/in-the-land-of-the-oil-bust-the-repo-business-booms/
Actually, that's so far from the truth that it's laughable. I can see how someone who is a hired hand to the billionaires might think that, though.
Except for those activities that destroy the sustainable base of the Big Bend economy, that's true. Destructive, extractive industries are just the next bust waiting to happen, but the damage they do doesn't just pack up and leave with the gypsy work force typical of the oil & gas economy. That pipeline to Mexico can promote fracking activities in the Big Bend and the multiplication of gathering lines as well as eventually become the means for cheaper Mexican natural gas to be piped back into Texas.
It should be obvious from recent history that the oil and gas booms aren't sustainable. Now, the repo business is the next boom.
Do you work for free?
I'm self employed like you does that make you a hired hand?
I certainly don't think providing services to a billionaire makes someone a pool boy. During the course of your ranch surveys do you shovel horse crap out of the stalls at the end of each day? How about wash the dishes when you finish up your ranchette surveys?