One thing that you should understand about surveyors is the fact that we constantly have to fix the problems created by unqualified individuals trying to do work outside of their area of expertise. Some people may get a little more heated than others - Stockholm Syndrome.
The thing that worries me the most is that you can't see that the bearings are not parallel when they should be. This is based on the fact that the distances are the same. This is probably a blunder in the survey you have. Now the question is; which one is correct? Don't get me wrong...I wouldn't expect you to see this. As I don't know how to hook up a three way switch or the slope percentage from my toilet to the clean out.
Trying to describe a boundary that is adjoining a physical feature so close will be challenging to say the least. I am curious how you will accurately describe this without the aid of a surveyor.
I hope that your experience on this forum will not taint your view of surveyors. You introduced a very sensitive subject and got a little defensive when questioned about it. I have to say that MOST of the guys on this forum are true professionals and you are getting much more useful advice than you asked for.
I hope that if you do win this case, you will utilize a professional surveyor to ensure that you convey exactly what is supposed (the courts intended) to be conveyed.
> I'm finding a closing gap of about .1 feet on what is essentially a 60 ft by 105 ft lot.
How did you become aware of a .1' foot closing gap? If this is a subdivided lot, by a plat of record in recent years, it more than likely has been cross checked and verified by county officials! Was it noted on the surveyor's plat?
Verify how you determined that.
The Law
From this link:
OCCUPATIONS CODE
TITLE 6.
SUBTITLE C.
CHAPTER 1071. LAND SURVEYORS
SUBCHAPTER A. GENERAL PROVISIONS
1071.002. DEFINITIONS
(6) "Professional surveying" means the practice of land, boundary, or property surveying or other similar professional practices. The term includes:
(A) performing any service or work the adequate performance of which involves applying special knowledge of the principles of geodesy, mathematics, related applied and physical sciences, and relevant laws to the measurement or location of sites, points, lines, angles, elevations, natural features, and existing man-made works in the air, on the earth's surface, within underground workings, and on the beds of bodies of water to determine areas and volumes for:
(i) locating real property boundaries;
(ii) platting and laying out land and subdivisions of land; or
(iii) preparing and perpetuating maps, record plats, field note records, easements, and real property descriptions that represent those surveys; and
(B) consulting, investigating, evaluating, analyzing, planning, providing an expert surveying opinion or testimony, acquiring survey data, preparing technical reports, and mapping to the extent those acts are performed in connection with acts described by this subdivision.
(Emphasis added.)
Sec. 1071.251. REGISTRATION, LICENSE, OR CERTIFICATE REQUIRED.
(a) In this section, "offer to practice" means to represent by verbal claim, sign, letterhead, card, or other method that a person is registered or licensed to perform professional surveying in this state.
(b) A person may not engage in the practice of professional surveying unless the person is registered, licensed, or certified as provided by this chapter.
This may also be of interest, found here:
Texas Administrative Code
Title 22
Part 29
Chapter 663
Subchapter A
Rule 663.6:
All reasonable assistance in preventing the unauthorized practice of land surveying should be given the board. Unauthorized practice should not be aided in any way. The registrant:
(1) shall make known to the board any unauthorized practice of which he/she has personal knowledge;
(2) shall divulge to the board any information, of which he/she has personal knowledge, related to any unauthorized practice upon request of the board or its authorized representatives;
(3) shall not delegate responsibility to, nor in any way aid or abet, an unauthorized person to practice, or offer to practice.
Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.
Who is it really
I think this is actually Nearly Normal posting. He was always very combative as well.
The measurements were on an individual lot survey used by the mortgage company and title company at the time of purchase in early 1996 although it appears to be dated from Sept of 1990.
What I called a closing gap is probably more of a situation where two lines overlap as I failed to create my point of beginning at the NW corner as suggested by one of the posters on this site. I am very proficient at autocad and discovered the mistake once I began drawing the site plan.
> I think I'll just disagree with you on this concept. He can't be his own client, and eh can't offer services to himself unless I'm missing some mental issue that has him conversing with himself.
>
> I've been around the block enough (35 years) to know surveying when I see it. The gentleman is simply trying to get a plan together to make a claim. I don't see where he's filing any plans that other surveyors are going to rely upon. If you can record unstamped plans in Texas then that may be a different story.
>
> Regardless, whatever he prepares will establish the intent, and will have to be acted upon by a judge.
>
> Where's the harm here? And how is it any different than a homeowner setting some pins for property they want to convey?
I'll refer you to Patrick Yglesias' post below.
Why can't he be his own client? If he is preparing a metes & bounds for property he wishes to own, he is working for himself. He is his own client.
A profession is a vocation founded upon specialized educational training, the purpose of which is to supply objective counsel and service to others, for a direct and definite compensation, wholly apart from expectation of other business gain.
Again...I am not engaged in the profession of surveying.
> A profession is a vocation founded upon specialized educational training, the purpose of which is to supply objective counsel and service to others, for a direct and definite compensation, wholly apart from expectation of other business gain.
>
> Again...I am not engaged in the profession of surveying.
I'll refer you to Patrick Yglesias' post below.
You sir, by what you have stated earlier, are practicing the profession of surveying defined by the laws of Texas. Regardless if you are being compensated or not. I can look up on the interwebs too and find a definition that will support my stance, but I won't.
> Nah, he's not practicing surveying without a license. To whom has he offered his services? And for what fee?
>
> I am sure that a judge, should he prevail, will require a stamped plan, if he's defining property lines.
If he is calling a distance to a property line then he is practicing without a license.
> I have to say that this thread is quite entertaining to read.
>
> HardAssets, you remind me of the type of folks I run into in my profession (I pretty much just lurk on this forum). I engineer and install computer networks (mainly wireless networks) for a living. I love folks like you that ask for advice, and then won't even really consider it may have some value to look at an alternative point of view.
>
> This reminds me of a recent episode where I was working in a hospital optimizing their new wireless network. One Doctor couldn't get on the internet. He suggested I should just "Go unplug the Internet and plug it back in" because "that's what I do at home to fix it". I wanted to ask him if I could scrub in with him on his next surgery since I had experience removing splinters with tweezers. Same thing right?
you'll fit riiiiiiiiiight in here. :good:
> My first post...I'm a builder type but not a surveyor. I hope you guys can help me out. I'm trying to create metes and bounds for three areas inside a house on an essentially rectangular...or parallelogram type lot. My measurements and angles of the lot are pulled from a survey created in reliance upon a document created between the developers and a utility provider.
>
> I'm finding a closing gap of about .1 feet on what is essentially a 60 ft by 105 ft lot. My question is...should I simply reference on of the closed corners in establishing the metes and bounds disregarding and not mentioning the closing gap or should I indicate that the closing gap exists somewhere on my survey?
>
> I'm not in a position to have a survey in the property but I need to develop the metes and bound rather quickly.
I've read the entire thread to this point and I'd like to add my $0.02. In my opinion, you're over thinking it AND you're in over your head.
You have a lot plat/plan that doesn't close by 0.10'. You also indicate that you have a plat or plan of some type that shows the dwelling or building upon the lot. How accurately is that located and by how? Is it a concept plan or an "as built". If it's just offset distances, are those only recited to nearest 0.1' (it usually is in VA and WV), and how else is the building located on the lot? Do you have a direct tie (bearing and distance) from a property corner to a corner of the building? And then do you have a bearing and distance along the wall? If not this, then do you have a distance along the property line to the nearest hundredth then a 90° offset to the nearest hundredth to a building corner? You need at least 2 of these to get the accuracy you are looking for. Are the distances of the building only rounded to 0.1' also? If so, what you have here are "semi-close" dimensioning.
Look at it like this, you have a lot that the math doesn't close by 0.1', then you have a distance along a property line that may or may not be to the nearest 0.1'±, add in the perpendicular distance that is rounded to 0.1'± and the building measurements that probably rounded to the nearest 0.1'± on the outside of the siding or brick or whatever and you are suddenly more than 0.5'± from the actual location of what you are trying to describe.
I think you are well out of your field of expertise here... and to bad-mouth those that ARE willing to help, but you just want to argue, well, don't let the door smack you on the rear on the way out of our little club. Learn some manners and tact, and you'll be welcome here or anywhere.
Carl
EDIT: I see now that you have some sort of "Mortgage Inspection Survey" or something like that. Good luck. You might get your room located within a foot or two. And the second that you scan or scale something, it makes your little 0.1' misclosure minuscule by comparison.
I believe that:
The "error" must be determined from the courses and distances provided earlier. - clue #1.
2nd: I quote: "I am very proficient at autocad and discovered the mistake once I began drawing the site plan." - clue #2.
The cat is in the bag. Need I say more.:sun:
Would you not have describe the metes and bounds in 3 dimensions , so she could not build above or below. Why could she not move the house to a new location with you in it . Or take the other rooms off the house . Or build a mote around your parking space.
> :good:
>
> And then he goes on to insult those who are offering him advice...for free!!!
>
> -V
Yes, but he insulted Kent! If fact it sounded like something Kent would say.
The only people I have bad mouthed in here have basically been the arrogant jerks like you. Just how critical do you actually think it is whether a house is 5 feet or 5.1 feet from the property line. do you really think it needs to be measure to the hundredths? How ridiculous!
Dude I have stood up over 250 houses so I know how to hold things square and also how to square up a house on an out of square slab because a surveyor somehow missed his mark. I can cut the entire roof of any house and stack it in the front yard even before the house is stood up.
I even achieved a US patent on a design for a positioning system utilizing a spherical coordinate system rather than the Cartesian Coordinate System generally used on machinery worldwide.
So don't tell me I'm out of my element. As I said before, I not surveying a piece of raw land with huge moves in elevations....I'm simply denoting a few rooms within a floor plan of a 3 bedroom 2 bath home.
People like you make reasonable communication difficult and arguments impossible to resolve fairly as arrogant people like you (and I guess your little club) will not accept the other person's point of view, no matter how logical/intuitive or correct it is.
Ao I guess this post will unleash the next salvo of insults?
> I guess this post will unleash the next salvo of insults?
You will get no retort from me, because I must be out of MY element. It is painfully obvious that you know everything... except how to determine the meets and bounds of a room inside of a house.
[sarcasm]GOOD LUCK[/sarcasm]
I think this is my favorite post ever, and over a tenth! It could only be better if it was 0.04.
> Ao I guess this post will unleash the next salvo of insults?
😛 😛 😛 :good: :good: :good: +o(