Land Ho

All calculations can be thrown off by one common theme:
http://www.land-ho.com/

Or this Land Ho

Mr. Breysacher knows about this one.

> Needs a thread of his own.
And here it is! I really didn't expect so much, but apparently I asked for it - ha.

> With all due respect, "This ain't a good idea".

I've started to get that impression.

> Many problems come to mind. Maybe the brgs on the plat are NOT based on TRUE, within the scope of the project. Maybe they are based on true, 3 miles to the east, or west, and this changes things.
> Maybe they are not based on true at all. Maybe they are based on State Plane GRID brgs. Now you need to factor in Theta. Which varies, with how far you are from the CM (Central Meridian), of the PLANE you are in.
>
Your comments are well taken.

> It could be a good idea, IF all the tools to get there, were readily available, and SIMPLE. IF you want to know why I say this, well, call one of your Good local surveyors, and ASK them to allow you to participate, next time he does one. I think one of the first things you will learn, is that PROBABLY less than 1/2 of your locals actually do them much any more... or have ever done one...But, you may possibly wind up with a nice helpful guy, who will sell you a solar filter, or show you how to do it with a transit, letting the sun shine backward through it, on to a sheet of paper.

Excellent idea. In fact I have tried to do so this summer with a couple of surveyors whom I have worked with on projects, but it never happened.

>
> As a better idea though:
>
> I recommend that for a guy like you, who is pretty smart, but not initiate in this stuff, to do the following:
>
> Get the plat, and locate 2 corners that are intervisable. That is, that you can see between them easily. Put a stake over one of them, and flag it. Go to the other one, and shoot a compass between them. Now, subtract the sexigesimal degrees, minutes, and seconds. and get the CORRECTION for your compass. (Note, they are not all the same, and so this needs to be done with EACH INDIVIDUAL COMPASS) Now, you have YOUR compass declination. Apply this correction to the 700' line through the woods. This should get you within a few feet of line, and if you step off the distance, is a handy recon tool. If you need to, hire a local surveyor to teach you. Just doing it, several times, with a bit of somebody looking over your shoulder can save you much frustration.

I got it. Plus it seems to make more sense doing it this way for this particular exercise.

>
> Remember, a magnetic compass can be thrown off, by metal fences, and cars, and iron in the local vicinity.

And big granite boulders. I wouldn't be surprised to find 55 gallon drums in the swamp either.
>
> I think if you learn this declinated compass trick, you will use it from here on out.
>
> Nate

Thank you Nate.

The advice Nate gave is a start. You should also be aware that the magnetic north pole is constantly moving. NOAA has information online at On-line calculators to estimate current and past values of the magnetic field. as well as a warning "Solar disturbances can cause significant differences between the estimated and actual field values." This in addition to all the local attractions previously mentioned. Also note that the value calculated online is an estimate. For your purposes the procedure Nate described would need to be done on each property. Even more true if the basis of bearing is not stated on the survey plat.

I have a text "Compass Land Surveying" (West Virginia Professional Surveyors likely know the volume) that recounts a 1968 experiment indicated that a 46 chain (3036 ft.) line run by compass bearing through 23 stations was not straight. Careful observations of the resulting 23 stations were made with a theodolite to document the results. Also estimation from NGS declination tables predicted a declination difference of 0.65 minute for the one hour it took to run the line. The actual results tended to confirm that declination change during a single day can be detected.

You are welcome

I am an advocate of requiring all surveyors to USE or REFERENCE to an objective Basis of Bearings. This way much of the confusion of different brg. systems is eliminated. This would make surveys MORE understandable for a common person.

HOWEVER... did you know that getting 5 surveyors to AGREE on which way north is is hard thing?
Well, they can often agree within a few arc seconds. And, that's all that matters to me.

So, GPS can be placed on any BRG system you'd like... And it varies.

A good question to ask a surveyor is WHICH north they are going to use on your survey? (We all now a days, work on A Grid, not necessarily on State Plane Grid) BUT that rectangular coord system, is based on SOMETHING. Old deed, Old Survey, State Plane Grid. Geodetic North, AT SOME POINT IN THAT NETWORK etc.

So, really if you want to get a straight line, between 2 pts, that are some distance apart, I recommend the tomato stake method.

Here is how it works:

Buy a bundle of Tomato Stakes. They are usually hardwood, 1"x1"x4' And a 100' tape, and a compass.
Find ONE corner of your survey, that is at the end of a line that you need marked.
Drive a Tomato stake, and paint the top. Plumb it over the corner.
Use the compass, and ESTIMATE the line to the next corner.
Hook the tape on the Tom Stake, and pull out 100'. (This MUST be level) Drive another Tom Stake. Keep on going. KEEP THEM ALL IN A STRAIGHT LINE. Eyeballing as you go.
Let's say that it is a 1000' line, over a hill, and through a swamp. At the end, line you MISS the corner by 30'.

OK, NOW we have a direct proportion. 30'/1000' 1st stake moves 3', second one moves 6' and so forth, Until you get your line. This is an old farmer's trick, to get a straight line.
IF you must, you can use shorter pulls, but the principals must remain the same. Now you have a straight line through the woods.
And, your expense is a $ 150 compass, Stakes, (And paint for the tops) and maybe flagging, and a 100' tape.

Fast and easy. But you do have to cut out the line. Maybe a chainsaw. And, IF you wander into the adjoiner, you MAY have the liability of CUTTING his trees. Talk with the adjoiner FIRST! But, you can get a straight line, usually real close, if you measure, and eyeball well.

Let us know how it turns out.

Low Tech Surveying.

Often, it's better to ask your surveyor to place a couple of line marks between any long lines, or where there is brush, so you can work with it.

Nate

Reminded of old joke

Three women on a train start to talk to pass the time. Two are Native Americans. The first says: Me Arapaho. The second says: Me Navajo. Third woman says: Well, I'll be darned. Me Chicago Ho.

Reminded of old joke

Alright, break in the New Guy! And engineer no less!

I will admit, I wondered if Land HO! meant the same thing as a fore spotter in a boat, spotting land, or if it meant Land Whore! We actually have a few Land Whores down here, that buy land, sell the timber, hire the WORST surveyor possible, and sell 3 ac lots, for 75 down, and 75 a month, for some gawdawful 465 months.....And if you are late by 60 days or something, then all payments are considered RENT, and you lose your place, and START OVER with paying for it.

Happy Friday to all!

Nate

Reminded of old joke

Actually the moniker is my license plate on my "Real Estate" car. It was suggested by the used car salesman that I bought the car from. I liked the double entendre, so I ran with it.

I'm a licensed real estate agent and Realtor(tm) with a bunch of designations. I got my license for many reasons. One of them was I couldn't stand the way the majority of real estate agents operated. It got me in the club so I didn't have to deal with salesmen (and women) who only were interested in making the sale. I do land acquisition/development/build etc. and I actually evaluate property; walk the lines; find the bounds; check the zoning; read the deeds; follow chain of title; etc.etc. The vast majority of real estate agents are turned off by someone who actually wants to know something about the property rather than being sold on the "fantastic location", "the great neighborhood", "the peaceful setting" and all that sort of BS.

I also manage mine and others' rental properties and a license is required to do property management in NH.

So, LandHo is a tongue-in-cheek thing and a little ribbing to Realtors as well.

But, yeah, I still consider myself an engineer in a family of engineers. However, I'm the black sheep as I did electrical and the others were civil. Ironic I'm now doing more civil related stuff.

Well, if you don't have thin skin

And you want to learn stuff, this is a great place. And, some of the coarsest of guys, sometimes have some real treasures to share.

And, sometimes the nicest of guys, won't have a clue.

That's life!

Nate

Reminded of old joke

We have a Land Agent at work (sort of the government version of Title Officer and Real Estate Agent rolled into one, sort of a Project Manager for property acquisition). He told me the private residential business is dominated by "cheer leaders."

I ran about 3900' through very rough terrain. I started about 50' from the west monument by wiggling into line because the monument is concrete with rebar in the center. Then I ran east to within about 100' of the other end (also concrete with rebar). My falling was 1' north. Later traverse shows my line of laths varies up to almost 4' north of line. I drifted north then paralleled the line for a long time then drifted back towards line. That is really better than I expected.