Yes, you have to remove the right marker or it pretty well defeats the purpose of making a survey in the first place. Some markers will take special tools and more persistence than many landowners may have. I can see how a surveyor who was worried about billing the time that removing the monuments would take might want to push it off onto someone else. I wouldn't.
This was posted by Kent in a thread below and I am curious if this method of surveying is accepted in Texas by other surveyors there and of course most importantly, is it accepted by whatever kind of survey board that Texas has in effect?
For the context of the above, the thread is below for your viewing pleasure.
Seriously!
Keith
The Texas Survey Board should be aware of this kind of
nonsense!
Keith
Retiree Foams at the Mouth, Footage at 10:00!
Keith, chat with yourself on this one. When I get a chance, I'll post some real world examples and you can get all worked up into a retiree-type lather over the extremely good judgment my solution reflects and the extremely poor judgment any alternative would.
Any Texas Survey Board members listening?
You have an ear full.
Keith
Any Texas Survey Board members listening?
lol!
Hey! Look over here, not at the BLM!
Hey, I get the idea that you just want to change the subject from those 31 corners that the BLM moved by as much as 20 ft. or more in Wyoming, just pulling out the old monuments and resetting them where they should have gone in the first place so that it wouldn't cause future problems.
I thought that superman's alter ego was Clark Kent
A Small Room Without Kryptonite
Well, this whole discussion is on a topic that any surveyor ought to have a well-reasoned opinion about. Is it the fact that I actually go into the field to look at this stuff and really think through the consequence of various actions, is that what seems super-human?
Frankly, I can't imagine how a surveyor can just sit in the office making the sort of assessments that real world problems demand. That is what takes super-human abilities and X-ray vision, not to mention a small room without windows or Kryptonite.
Hey! Look over here, not at the BLM!
It would seem to me that the BLM correcting erroneous surveys that they performed is an entirely different scenario than than some jack leg know it all taking it upon himself to declare his judgement superior to that of his peers. For me the only time that my corner removing tools come out of the box are to correct my own errors never ever to expunge the opinion of another surveyor.
Hey! Look over here, not at the BLM!
> It would seem to me that the BLM correcting erroneous surveys that they performed is an entirely different scenario than than some jack leg know it all taking it upon himself to declare his judgement superior to that of his peers.
Well, you clearly have either limited experience or limited abilities if you can't tell the difference between a rod and plastic cap marker that was set last year and still has the mill finish on the rod and a a rebar that was set, say, in 1968 when the subdivision was originally laid out by a surveyor who was known for setting a particular type of bar.
Hey! Look over here, not at the BLM!
Oops I forgot in you world you have no peers you are the only guy who can get it right and if you don't act to save the public from the vast hoard of quickie dickie surveyors then civilization as we know it will cease to exist. Wow what a pompous self righteous ass you are. Who exactly is it that you are trying to convince with your ongoing diatribe?
Hey! Look over here, not at the BLM!
> Oops I forgot in you world you have no peers you are the only guy who can get it right ...
No, that's hardly true. There are plenty of highly competent surveyors in Texas. However, we've been discussing the quickie-dickie specialists who dominate the residential survey market in particular. They are, at least in the urban areas, as a rule not the sort of surveyors who take great care with their work. In fact, they tend to be the folks who don't even set foot on the ground and send unlicensed employees out to do the actual work with an admonition to do it as quickly as super-humanly possible.
My peers and I, we can't do residential lot surveys in screwed-up neighborhoods for $400. So, as a result, we aren't surprised when we see the sort of corners that get cut by the folks who try to.
Typically, I get called in when someone has been greatly damaged and litigation is underway. That is when there is suddenly money to survey correctly. Imagine that.
I give up
At this point Kent I find myself becoming entirely too petty in my comments so I am going to agree to disagree with you on this topic. I don't plan on moving to Texas and I'm sure that you have no intention of coming to practice in Florida (where my perspective on this issue is supported by the law). Thank you for a lively and spirited debate, no opinions changed on either side. Have a good night.
RRain
I give up
Well, I will post a few real world examples from Texas and you will be able to decide for yourself what the best course of action would be, professionally speaking.
There really is no reason to make a mystery of this. I simply assume that other surveyors have had experiences similar to mine and have been forced to draw somewhat similar conclusions from them.
Randy
How does Florida law view record monuments versus un-called for reinforcement-rod?
Randy
Florida law, much like those of AL, GA, and TX, recognizes that that reinforcement bar may have been relied upon by property owners for who may have a claim of adverse possession to said reinforcement bar, particularly if they have a recorded survey that references said reinforcement bar as the property corner which establishes color of title.
Mike, you did notice how Kent chose to ignore that he may have violated Texas civil code by removing the iron in question, did you not?
Randy
> Mike, you did notice how Kent chose to ignore that he may have violated Texas civil code by removing the iron in question, did you not?
Where did that come from? When I remove an erroneous survey marker, it is perfectly lawful and in fact is the proper professional thing to do. Texas isn't New York, where a surveyor can't apparently even dig under a new marker to determine whether the original is in place at a lower level.
Randy
Try reading the thread below before commenting. I posted a question about adverse rights in lieu of Texas Law. You chose to ignore as you kept trying to say other states gave the right to remove as it was not the corner. You ignored the argument that because you did not consider it the corner did not necessarily mean that unwritten rights to said iron as a corner may have ripened through adverse possession. That is the reason you leave it. A judge determines adverse rights, you report opinions. In your opinion that iron is not the corner nor represents it. But if the guy next door has a 5 year old survey showing that iron as the line which was recorded in the court house and has been mowing and planting ornamentals to said iron all those years, you would be in a heck of a fix as TX law says your client no longer has claim on that land that adjoiner has rights that have ripened and your removing of the iron would be an attempt to hide that fact.
Randy
> Try reading the thread below before commenting. I posted a question about adverse rights in lieu of Texas Law. You chose to ignore as you kept trying to say other states gave the right to remove as it was not the corner.
"Adverse rights" don't remotely figure into the cases I've described, i.e. where the original monuments described in the adjoining owner's deeds exist in place, undisturbed, and a quickie-dickie surveyor plugs in some new markers in ignorance of the originals and in mistaken locations that have the effect of making it hard to find the originals.
>You ignored the argument that because you did not consider it the corner did not necessarily mean that unwritten rights to said iron as a corner may have ripened through adverse possession.
No, that was an argument that didn't apply to the cases I've dealt with. I didn't think it was a serious point since you neglected to ever really understand the actual situation.
Keith,
Just an FYI.
You do not have to "bring this to the top" with another thread.
If you would have placed your original comment at the end of the other thread it would have gone "to the top" automatically, not like the other old board we all used to visit.
#6
