Hello all,
In your opinion, could the stakes shown in this picture shift not just vertically but horizontally from a piece of heavy equipment that created the ruts on either side of the stakes?
We had set these 3 weeks ago and the contractor is blaming us for the stakes being set wrong of course. Meanwhile, there are parallel column lines to either side ([sarcasm]15 whole feet away[/sarcasm]) that they could have checked against before setting the anchor bolts.
We located the stakes today and they are higher in elevation from our initial stakeout by 0.18' and horizontally shifted by 0.33'
Reason I am asking is that the stakes did not appear damaged or tilted so my only guess is that if the backhoe created the ruts in wet conditions, could that "island" of dirt shift as a whole?
We did perform an independent location of the stakes after setting them so I know they were correct 3 weeks ago. It is only these 2 stakes out of about 40 that are so far off.
Thanks in advance.
What did you set for stakes? How long are they? if they are less than a foot I would say yes.
Once had a contractor tell his operators to save the road centerline PI stakes we had surrounded with 3 steel fence posts. A few weeks they appeared to be untouched. However, we found them to be out by over ten feet. Dozer operator proudly announced he shoved the two foot high by four foot diameter mound out of the way to save our fence posts.
EDIT: Yes I would say the heavy equipment moved them. Even if they were 18 inches long they would lean with any heavy equipment moving as close as shown in that photo.
Absolutely. A vertical force placed upon a soil mass, (or any mass for that matter) will create a stress distribution in all directions. There will surely be a resultant horizontal displacement with a likely vertical uplift occuring adjacent to the wheel loading.
Don't believe me? Take a "casual" read about Mohr's Circle.
They were 6" hubs
That is almost exactly what another contractor told me that is involved in much bigger projects that we are building with him.
Thanks for the input
I've had it happen before. Shifted an 8" hub with tack and guard stake about 0.4' because a rubber tire loader drove beside a few times when the ground got soft from rain. Checked it against the stored point and checked into others that were still on the money. I showed the contractor and he understood.
Of course it can. All the mountain road builders we worked with were dam well aware of the issue no matter how much we caged our points or tried to put them out of the way. Especially, after a weekend of flash-flooding (which happened several times).
We all got along just fine so there was no blame-gaming at all. One of them tried to talk me into buying my own equipment and he'd keep me busy.
Yeah, if only this gentleman was understanding.
I was pretty convinced once we saw the ruts what had happened.
Overall I am not so worried about it since as you mentioned we re-collected the points after setting them.
It used to be where guys would call before they set the improvements not after to tell you there is an issue. I miss those days
nGROUND SHIFTING DUE TO HEAVY EQUIPMENT
Now that is funny, although I am sure at the time it wasn't.
I had a similar problem only once. I would expect them to move maybe a couple hundredths under normal construction. One time we staked out a building and then they used our building stakes for piling layout and drove in probably 60 or so piles inside the building bix. That force from the pile driver pushed almost all of the offset stakes up by about 0.2'. That's the only time Ive seen them move that much.
Yes it's possible and likely . Tell him you don't appreciate people running equipment so close to your control. tell contractor as of the date you set it was it was correct as per my legal stored records . Tell him you cannot be onsite protecting the points that's his job. Tell him you have the most expensive measuring device known to man it's always right.
Unless you put in wrong. Tell him he also has a tape measure or he would not know they were wrong to begin with and should not have been poured. don't act like it's your fault give him confidence and a verbal lashing a few cause words work with contractors. always works for me.
After that amount of time, and with heavy equipment having been nearby, I wouldn't trust those hubs at all. I'm surprised you haven't found more stakes out of place.
> After that amount of time, and with heavy equipment having been nearby, I wouldn't trust those hubs at all. I'm surprised you haven't found more stakes out of place.
I agree, I wouldn't expect them to last beyond a couple of days without being disturbed by either natural or man made causes--particularly in dirt. In Greg's case, I believe he left the contractor enough redundancy to give him additional checks.
I believe this to be a case of how the contractor depicts your services and when does your job end and his begin.
First Rule of Construction
> I believe this to be a case of how the contractor depicts your services and when does your job end and his begin.
Isn't the first rule of construction that mistakes are ALWAYS to be blamed on someone who isn't on the job any more? :>
First Rule of Construction
> > I believe this to be a case of how the contractor depicts your services and when does your job end and his begin.
>
> Isn't the first rule of construction that mistakes are ALWAYS to be blamed on someone who isn't on the job any more? :>
Yep,:-D
I agree 100% and it has all been said to him already.
I had my crew leave another site to check this out and help them.
They are really going to be thrilled when they receive my invoice for this.
It's simply a case of fluid dynamics crossed with soil mechanics. All of the dirt in the rut area will not go downward from the loading. The path of least resistance is laterally and upward. The actual movement will be a factor of numerous things thus preventing easy proof of exactly what happened. Your marker could move a certain distance laterally and/or a certain distance upward; or it could move more or less than that depending on the specific characteristics of the mud; or it could tilt in any direction; or it could tilt and also move laterally and upward. Attempting to prove it was in the correct position prior to the rut creation is impossible no matter how certain you are of that fact.
First Rule of Construction
We have other groups we work with that really know what they are doing and are a pleasure to work with. They will call instantly if something looks wrong and we will be there to check it for them. They also understand that if it was not something we screwed up, there will be a fee for our time and they are fine with that.
This guy was really reaching when he told the guys it is most likely due to the fact that we are using one of those new-fangled laser instruments and that he doesn't trust those.
The good thing is I know not to accept any more jobs with this group.
> ... Attempting to prove it was in the correct position prior to the rut creation is impossible no matter how certain you are of that fact.
This is the reason I have my crews locate the hub & tack after they set them. I download at the end of the day and make my comparisons.