FEMA (Certificate of Elevation/LOMA) for vacant land

Apparently they wish to pretend that they don't already know the appropriate elevation. They want you to have a full-blown hydrologic analysis run at your expense first so that you can submit a BFE elevation. Then they will either agree or disagree with that. Get out your checkbook.

Bottom line is that FEMA is trying very hard to discourage any kind of development close to floodplains.

By "elevation" I assume you mean base flood elevation. In my experience this should have been the first step in removing a portion of a piece of property. There are several different ways with coming up with a BFE, which your surveyor would know. Along with a BFE you'll need a topographic survey of the property you want removed. Once these two items are meet FEMA will allow the property that is above the contour that matches the BFE to be removed.

> Hi all!
>
> Hopefully someone out there can help with this crazy situation:
>
> I'm in the process of purchasing an area of vacant land in a flood zone. My surveyor submitted a LOMA request to FEMA so we can submit a certificate of elevation to a flood insurance company to see the cost of flood insurance for this particular property.
>
> FEMA has stated that a waterway runs through the Property and it needs to be removed before being able to determine "removal" or "nonremoval." So the surveyor conducts an official survey and excludes the waterway because it was never included in the first place although it may have been hard to tell on the FEMA maps.
>
> FEMA receives the info and is still saying it "appears" to be in the flood zone/waterway, even though the waterway is not on the Property.
>
> My surveyor is saying all we need is an elevation and a determination of "removal" or "non-removal" before continuing. FEMA is completely confused why we are asking for an elevation.
>
> This has been going on since about August 2014 and seems it is going nowhere.
>
> FEMA said the next step would be to apply for a letter of map revision or to submit info for moving the potential building; but I haven't indicated where it would be in the first place. The surveyor is saying FEMA is jumping way ahead and hasn't even answered our initial question of needing an "elevation" and/or determination of "removal" or "non-removal."
>
> What is missing from this process? Why can FEMA not provide an elevation and determination of "removal" or "non-removal?"
>
> Thanks so much for the help!!

Have you or your surveyor obtained a BFE determination (fixed elevation or adjacent delta from the OHWM) at the location of the property?

In my experience you would need to get this from a local study or agency authorized to make the determination.

FEMA may not be able to determine this for you.

Here is a link that runs through how these BFE determinations may be derived.

http://www.water.ca.gov/floodmgmt/lrafmo/fmb/docs/Zone_A_Presentation1.pdf

The only caution is that BFE determinations that are made from a far, use "the best available data" which I have found at times to be complete butshill, both in the high and low directions. However, if the determination is made from an entity authorized to do so, FEMA seems to honor them for "Removal" purposes.

Finally, there is nothing stopping FEMA or any authorized agency from raising the elevation of the BFE determination at any time, in other words, you may be deemed out by FEMA at the time of construction and later be sucked back in by a new determination and then forcefully burdened with outrageous insurance costs while simultaneously destroying the property value.

If it was my money, I would steer clear of all low relief property that is even remotely close to a floodplain.

> If it was my money, I would steer clear of all low relief property that is even remotely close to a floodplain.

:good:

Thanks so much for all of the information and advice so far.

I'd like to add that I think the main reason for the confusion is because there's a concrete lined drainage ditch/creek approximately 5 feet from the Property. This is what FEMA is saying is on the Property even though our survey excludes it.

FEMA is saying "it looks like about" 30 feet of flood plain/waterway and that it does not match the survey. I think it causes confusion because it's a drainage ditch.

Ultimately all we need is a BFE, but sounds like FEMA can't give this to us because of the property being 30 feet within the "waterway" (drainage ditch).

FEMA wants me to apply for a LOMR since the maps do not match the survey.

Is it odd that I'd need to apply for LOMR in order to get a BFE?

Would it do any good to submit other FEMA determinations/BFEs of immediately adjoining properties on the same street that my surveyor has?

Thanks!

I don't suppose you could attach the pertinent area on the flood map? Just because the property is not immediately adjacent to the waterway, does not necessarily mean it's not affected by its appurtenant floodway (where building is restricted). Also, if you have the BFE determined from adjacent properties ( and accepted by FEMA), that can be quite helpful.l

Just wanted to send a quick update/conclusion:

I spoke with the FEMA analyst's supervisor and when I began to explain the situation, he stopped me and said they have everything they need and a LOMR isn't required. He said he spoke with the analyst and straightened it all out and they are making a determination (for removal or non-removal). Strange that it is suddenly back on track! That I suppose should've happened many months ago?? But I didn't question it too much, I'm just happy that for some reason they decided they have everything and they'll make the determination. I'm wondering if I ever even needed my surveyor to perform an actual survey on the property (he initially just sent elevation docs). But oh well! At least I have it and maybe it well help in their determination.

Anyway, MOST OF ALL-Thank you all for your concerns and advice! Such a helpful and nice forum!!