"Do you think I might have a realistic chance of entering Land Surveyor profession, given I'm in my mid-40s and female, plus an immigrant (from Eastern Europe)?"
YES!
However your chances are better based on where you are now or where you are willing to go.
We have 50 states and several territories with various levels of educational program opportunities. Plus they have various levels of educational requirements and experience levels for licensure.
Your chances are best if you are in a state, close to a state or willing to move to a state that:
1/ Has a college or colleges that offer a 2 year Associate in Surveying.
2/ Allows a holder of an Associates in Surveying to take the fundamentals exam with no experience.
3/ Allows a holder of an Associates in Surveying to take the PLS exam with low level of experience.
4/ Has a college that offers evening, weekend or online classes. This can facilitate you earning a living while getting an education.
5/ Has a college that will accept a generous amount of your general college credits, allowing you to concentrate on surveying courses.
6/ If you seek to get an online education your chances are better if it is from an ABET accredited program. Some states exclude (in policy) non ABET courses, but with some effort you still may get approval.
Let me give an example, assume you are currently in New Jersey which is among the highest levels of requirements, a Bachelors in Surveying with at least 45 surveying credits and only one college, New Jersey Institute of Technology, offering a surveying program. Pennsylvania has 2 colleges and New York has 4 colleges offering an Associates in Surveying program.
You do not have to be a resident of a state to apply to a state, but a connection in that state helps, such as a degree from a college in that state or employment with a company in that state.
There a states where you could get a Bachelors in Surveying with as few as 30 surveying credits and Associates programs can vary from 20 to 30 credits. Several state only require a certificate in Surveying, equal to about 15 surveying credits, to sit for the exam. Pennsylvania gives a holder of a Bachelor of Science in Civil Engineering with only 10 surveying credits an opportunity to take the fundamentals exam.
Having taken the fundamentals exam, the years of surveying experience required to sit for the PLS can vary with the type of degree from state to state. Some states only require the proper education to sit for the fundamentals and then consider you an LSIT. Other states require that you specifically apply to that state to be considered as an LSIT in that State. While you may have some surveying experience prior to taking the fundamental exam, some states such a Pennsylvania reset that clock to surveying and require the experience to occur at being considered an LSIT.
You will note that the final answer is not a simple yes. Let us start the conversation about you with where you are and give some idea of the course material from your computer degree.
Paul in PA
Nate The Surveyor, post: 435905, member: 291 wrote: Tell us where you might want to go,,, maybe somebody there has an opening...
I'm open to moving to a variety of states -- I had lived all over the country before. For a few recent years had been living on the West Coast/would want to move away, up North and be inland or in Alaska.
I. Ben Havin, post: 435923, member: 6834 wrote: Greetings lightrange,
If you have the determination to push through and get the Geomatics degree you may be setting yourself up to have a long and lucrative career in this industry.
First, thanks for all the encouraging replies -- wow, that's a lot of encouragement.
(not what I was facing when going for my BS in Computer Science, more of an opposite! But I went for it nevertheless).
Thanks for the tips, I'll be taking all into account.
By Geomatics degree, I assume you mean Associate's would be sufficient.
Associates would be fairly easy to get for me, since I can reuse all my general ed/science classes from the existing Bachelor's and just add the Geomatics courses that can I finish in a couple of semesters. I thought that even getting a certificate in Geomatics (same as Associates but without the general ed part) from the accredited college, such as a state community college, would suffice.
Peter Ehlert, post: 435904, member: 60 wrote: there are many variables, you got a great outline above.
I say Go For It.
20 years from now you don't want to be wishing you had gave it a shot.
Yes, this is something I wonder about a lot. I have some hard feelings about not going for Civil Engineering degree when I had a chance to, and doing CS instead. I guess at the end one got to go for what they really want to, and take some risk, and not what might be more convenient/safe at the moment.
FL/GA PLS., post: 435939, member: 379 wrote: With your current skills and especially you positive attitude you will succeed. My Vice President is a 46 year old female RPLS and has been with us for 28 years. I am currently in process of turning the business over to her. In my old eyes (66) you possess the same drive and attitude as her. 😎
Thanks! 🙂
Regarding having the drive... I did go through a lot of hardship to get my BS in Computer Science, which involved not being able to get housing sometimes, being in a big and expensive city back then.... (one day, my math professor had told me how he lived in a tent in the hills/woods throughout the whole time while he've been getting his PhD in Math, as he couldn't afford the rent, this is some drive...). My current work is a constant study... so fast paced (draining)--new technology every week, literally, as company invents proprietary tech- I especially welcome a chance to learn skills that won't be becoming obsolete within month or year, such as one I've been learning on a daily basis. I do have quite a bit of drive to be learning "Down to Earth" stuff.
spledeus, post: 435942, member: 3579 wrote: Where in eastern Europe are you from? Where do you live now?
Go for it.
I'm originally from Russia (been here for many, many years).
Right now I'm living in CA, but had lived in a few states before.
Mark Mayer, post: 435985, member: 424 wrote: As a person with computer skills you will have to be very careful not to end up working in a survey office, sitting and staring at the screen, while under high pressure, deadlines, etc. It is a fight I am engaged in myself.... But as far as being 40ish, and so on...no problem. In fact, if you happen to be in the Portland area I'm looking for a person just like you.
Yes... the whole point is to get away from all day screen, though I don't mind to do part of the work on a computer, of course.
I'm not in Portland area unfortunately. I had lived traveling between WA and CA until recently, working remotely half of the time from Olympic Peninsula in WA, but just now moved back to CA and thinking of full relocation now.
Bushwhacker, post: 436011, member: 10727 wrote: I worked at a lot of different jobs before I stumbled into Land Surveying, I knew within a week that Surveying was what I was meant to do. Check around for a Continuing Education class on Field Procedures and Corner Recovery, if you can find one close by attend and you should get an idea of what to expect
Thanks. In my state, CA, I couldn't find continuing education Surveying classes, all seem to be community college or university regular classes.
None are close to me, and I'd have to relocate to study. I'd get in-state tuition in my state, but I'm even thinking of going out of state, as housing is very, very expensive everywhere here, so going out-of-state may level out the out-of-state tuition cost because of housing.
mav1958, post: 436073, member: 12168 wrote: If you are willing to travel, I believe there are many opportunities now, for rodmen doing pipeline work.
Yes, absolutely willing to travel, I'll be looking into it.
Andy J, post: 436077, member: 44 wrote: Welcome, Lightrange! I would say that just on your skills and history, you'd probably be able to get a job right away as long as the area you are in isn't an economic and/or social backwater. I would rather do that then go for training first. Make sure it's for you. If you spend a lot of time in school (and money) most places will want you behind a computer pretty fast . It's the nature of the biz.
Oh really? I didn't know having a cert or degree could disadvantage for getting a field position and force you into the office.... I was thinking of doing college internship/going specifically to school that offers them.
I'll definitely give a try of trying to do some work or shadowing first, if I can get it.
In general, the trend in all professions now is that one got to have a degree or cert (even a janitor, almost...) nowadays, nothing entry level is ever posted online (and this is just in all professions), so I wasn't sure it was realistic of getting any opportunity to do anything before going to school.
lightrange, post: 436138, member: 12864 wrote: I'm originally from Russia (been here for many, many years).
Right now I'm living in CA, but had lived in a few states before.
There are online options for education. Not sure what there is out in CA, but UMaine Orono offers online surveying programs.
DEREK G. GRAHAM OLS OLIP, post: 436079, member: 285 wrote: Would you wish to locate to Ontario Canada ?
Please do look to this AOLS link : http://www.aols.org/join/membership
Any way I can help you, do not be afraid of asking.
Cheers,
Derek
I do like Canada. Canada residency requirements had been tightening up in recent years. To go through the point system to be able to live and work there, one got to accumulate a lot of points, and being in the 40s you lose a few points. I could enter as a software professional with experience, but I'd have to also have a job offer on hand and ready to work for that employer in Canada, to meet the points requirement, as I don't have advanced graduate degree. There're provinces that got surveyors on the preferred professions list, but this is for the licensed professional surveyors with experience.
lightrange, post: 436144, member: 12864 wrote: None are close to me, and I'd have to relocate to study.
Great Basin College offers a full bachelor program entirely on-line.
Note that entry level wages would probably be somewhere in the $40k range, likely topping out somewhere under $100k after several years of experience. You might be used to something above that?
NCSpiralGuy, post: 436107, member: 12287 wrote: I was in my 40's when I started taking surveying courses (paid for by the surveying company I was then drawing for). I have a four-year degree in math and CS and a two-year degree in surveying (which took more than two years, because of other courses like anthropology which one has to take, and because I was also drawing surveys). North Carolina did not then require a four-year degree, but there is talk in or with the legislature about it; some other states do require a four-year degree.
I'm a native trilingual, my website is bilingual, and my card is trilingual (the third language is a Hebrew Bible verse). If you advertise as a zemlemerka (sp and apologies if you're not a Slav), and there are others in your area who speak your language, you may get customers that other surveyors won't access.
As the underground rodent said, gopher it!
"Zemlemerka", yes I know what it is! 🙂
I got lots of credits (more than BS requires) and tons of general ed and all kinds of science classes, including Geology, should have something for every kind of AS program, I hope, and if not I always can plea with department to accept something in lieu....
Seems like there's a great variety of what states require to sit of licensing and I'll explore all that.... Things change too...seems like North Carolina recently relaxed the requirement and allowed ones with HS diploma and 10 years work experience to take exam.
dms330, post: 436123, member: 2118 wrote: I have had many people "puppy dog" me for a day to see what it's like. Admittedly, most of them were younger. I think a lot of surveyors would be happy to show you what it's all about. Your age, gender and accent are non-issues in my mind.
It sounds like you have many of the right ingredients for the occupation. Nate's advice is good, test the waters and make sure.
Good luck
Yes, thanks for the suggestion, I'll try to shadow someone, hope I find someone who'll accept, I guess I will just reach out to local surveyors/firms.
Paul in PA, post: 436128, member: 236 wrote: "Do you think I might have a realistic chance of entering Land Surveyor profession, given I'm in my mid-40s and female, plus an immigrant (from Eastern Europe)?"
YES!However your chances are better based on where you are now or where you are willing to go.
We have 50 states and several territories with various levels of educational program opportunities. Plus they have various levels of educational requirements and experience levels for licensure.
Your chances are best if you are in a state, close to a state or willing to move to a state that:
1/ Has a college or colleges that offer a 2 year Associate in Surveying.
2/ Allows a holder of an Associates in Surveying to take the fundamentals exam with no experience.
3/ Allows a holder of an Associates in Surveying to take the PLS exam with low level of experience.
4/ Has a college that offers evening, weekend or online classes. This can facilitate you earning a living while getting an education.
5/ Has a college that will accept a generous amount of your general college credits, allowing you to concentrate on surveying courses.
6/ If you seek to get an online education your chances are better if it is from an ABET accredited program. Some states exclude (in policy) non ABET courses, but with some effort you still may get approval.
Let me give an example, assume you are currently in New Jersey which is among the highest levels of requirements, a Bachelors in Surveying with at least 45 surveying credits and only one college, New Jersey Institute of Technology, offering a surveying program. Pennsylvania has 2 colleges and New York has 4 colleges offering an Associates in Surveying program.
You do not have to be a resident of a state to apply to a state, but a connection in that state helps, such as a degree from a college in that state or employment with a company in that state.
There a states where you could get a Bachelors in Surveying with as few as 30 surveying credits and Associates programs can vary from 20 to 30 credits. Several state only require a certificate in Surveying, equal to about 15 surveying credits, to sit for the exam. Pennsylvania gives a holder of a Bachelor of Science in Civil Engineering with only 10 surveying credits an opportunity to take the fundamentals exam.
Having taken the fundamentals exam, the years of surveying experience required to sit for the PLS can vary with the type of degree from state to state. Some states only require the proper education to sit for the fundamentals and then consider you an LSIT. Other states require that you specifically apply to that state to be considered as an LSIT in that State. While you may have some surveying experience prior to taking the fundamental exam, some states such a Pennsylvania reset that clock to surveying and require the experience to occur at being considered an LSIT.
You will note that the final answer is not a simple yes. Let us start the conversation about you with where you are and give some idea of the course material from your computer degree.
Paul in PA
Thanks for info. I take it that Associates in Surveying/Geomatics can be used across the states and
may be when relocating one can complete a course specific to Boundary laws in the new state.
Initially I thought that a Certificate in Surveying, while already holding BS in Computer Science would be enough, but I wonder if I must get formal Associates, which is the same number surveying courses plus reusing my general ed/electives from existing Bachelors.
I don't think I'd be willing to spend time on taking any more general ed/non-professional classes, considering I already have a lot more college credits for these than regular Bachelor's requires! (because of inter-state school transfers in the past, which had piled requirements for BS). Sometimes, petitioning works to flex transfer requirements...they won't tell you upfront but if you do well in your classes, they're more willing....I had some success with that before.
Thanks for the great advice and encouragement to everyone who responded, again.
Very much food for thought.
On a lighter note....about going to school.....back before I moved to the US long time ago, I had taken a drafting class at university....at those times in Russia drafting was on paper, with pencil and ink. One would dip a pen in the ink container and draw a line. Our teacher had told us how he had to re-do his large and complex graduation draft project 17 times, because every time he'd spill a drop of ink on the draft or do a slight imperfection: his instructor would make him redo it all, entire huge draft which was the size of about quarter of a bedroom wall. Upon the 18th rejection, he'd slammed the final draft onto his teacher's head, his head going right through it. Look forward to CAD.
An Associates degrees will get you in in about half the states. Some take an Associates with certain experience and a bachelors with less experience. It varies and thus you need to study your course of actions state by state. Here is where you start: NCEES web site
You can get started learning CAD at about any Community College. Plus, California has 5 colleges with surveying programs.
CAD can get you into surveying office especially if you let them know you can understand and do hand drafting. It is the visualization of how things should look that is key to doing a good job.
Paul in PA
I entered the business at 36 and never looked back, and I am now 67.
The best decision I ever made and I have never regretted it
Go for it with all you have
California does not require a degree (2 or 4 year) to sit for the PLS exam, nor do we currently have a continuing education requirement. I think the requirement to take the LSIT is 2 years of general land surveying related work experience. You may already qualify.
http://www.bpelsg.ca.gov/applicants/eit_lsitapp.shtml
Caltrans employs a lot of surveyors across the state and the pay for LSIT holders in the Transportation Surveyor series is quite competitive. The work force is aging rapidly and there will be much turnover/hiring in the next few years. There are several districts that are considered quite rural, like 1, 2 & 9.
So, take a look right here in California and best of luck to you wherever your pursuit takes you.