Working a survey for two clients with one adjoiner on east side of properties. The adjoiner is whining about the fence at the north end, having been told by a surveyor in the past that it's on his side of the line. I've got a handle on the section but need to establish one quarter corner.
So with what I think is the best evidence for the section lines I do the math to compare the ancient fence with the record PLSS lines. Well, at the south end the old fence gives 24 feet to the adjoiner and he only loses 5 feet at the north end if they accept the (already accepted for 80 years) fence. I've already told him I think they should all accept the fence that has been in place for 50-80 years (established boundary). I don't think the adjoiner knows (or has admitted) about the fence at the south end or I'm sure his story and attitude would change to the old fence.
So I'm giving my opinion that the old fence is the established boundary, but if they all insist we go to a new section breakdown I can do that but since it's not my opinion that is the boundary I'm not telling them where that is until they sign off on relocating the fence to new survey lines. Sometimes you shouldn't wish for things before you know the outcome (whine about the location of an 80 year old fence always respected as a boundary fence). Adjoiner wants to build a new fence and is insisting that it be on the section breakdown survey line but I don't think he knows it will be mostly on his side of the ancient fence going down the middle of his field road most of the way. Also, an irrigation pipeline would no longer be on his property. Seems he accepted the fence when he planted that a few years ago.
An other day, another dollar.
"When a surveyor has difficulty retracing the original surveyor's steps, either because field evidence is missing or conflicting, certain principles guide his or her evaluation of existing field evidence. First, because original lines control other information contained in the conveyance, a surveyor should determine whether or not a line of possession, such as a fence, marks the location of the original survey line. For instance, if the possession line is marked by on old boundary fence erected at approximately the some time as the original surveyor ran the lines, the fence may memorialize the survey line itself. A surveyor's determination that a line of possession corresponds with an original survey line should be made according to the best evidence available [emphasis added] which may include testimony of residents and the evaluation of the age of fencing or other natural monuments. In addition, where surveyors disagree on the location of property lines and
where a true survey line may be uncertain, monuments, such as fences which mark a
possession line and which were established soon after the original survey, will control."
Newfound Management Corp. v. Sewer; 855 F.Supp 727; 1995 U.S.Dist. LEXIS 6522
If the orginal patent of Section 15 was the N 1/2, there was no fence from the
N1/4 corner to the S 1/4 corner until some owner built a fence for
dividing livestock or tillage. Therefore the n-s fence leading to the N 1/4
corner is probably not evidence of the N 1/4 corner.
Of course, we got a goof ball going around the country giving standards seminars
and then accepts fence posts at 1/16 and 1/64 corners of the section which were
rarely originally set in the Midwest PLS states.
I guess I might be one of those goof balls, because I have accepted a fence corner for a center 1/4 corner and it was not set by the original GLO surveyor! Might even have done the deed at an interior 1/16 sec. cor?
Read sec. 6-28 of the 1973 Manual.
Keith
Maybe you should go with the sectional breakdown, as RECORD title, and let them QC it, to hold the fence. Now the section stays straight, and the title is with the fence.
N
What are your state laws regarding statutes of repose or limitation? You do realize that, because you are licensed under your state laws, you need to obey those laws when they impact your work, don't you?
Lawyers do not 'know' land law with regard to boundary location and description.
Remember, only the surveyor is licensed to recover and analyze physical evidence, therefore; we, not lawyers, determine what that physical evidence means.
Richard Schaut
"Of course, we got a goof ball going around the country giving standards seminars and then accepts fence posts at 1/16 and 1/64 corners of the section which were rarely originally set in the Midwest PLS states."
I guess it depends on what you mean by "originally set"? If you believe that the GLO/BLM survey is the only "original" survey, then I guess you need to read 3-76 of the 1973 Manual (3-131, 3-3-132, 3-133 in the 2009 Manual).
Most of the land went to patent around 1900. Since then it's been fenced, occupied, farmed, pastured, etc. There is no records of how they surveyed it and all the section corners are not original, they seem to migrate around. To complete this survey I need to set a quarter corner that is lost in the east/west direction. Maybe not lost but with conflicting evidence on each side of the township line.
So how many times does it take to finally breakdown a section. If I do it now it's probably the twentieth time. And the next time a corner is determined lost are we going to do it all over again. This just doesn't work, there is no stability of boundaries.
So the only stable thing out there are the old fences and related other improvements that have been in place and used by a succession of landowners as the boundary for almost a hundred years now. Yeah, and they are sort of funky too, not all straight and aligned with the current version of section corners. Some have been relocated due to surveys, others have remained in the same place and the survey markers near them just move around as successive surveyors come and go.
So I don't know, am I just the next surveyor to come and go. I ain't never going to outlast some of these fences.
Record title just says you own some land, the location of boundaries is a different but related matter. The boundary must be established by the landowners before you can exactly define where your record title is on the ground. That's what the courts say, but many surveyors don't believe it. Got to find that record title, well it's printed on a deed in the courthouse and the description on paper doesn't match the reality on the ground. A boundary doesn't get established by a few words on a piece of paper.