I believe it's possible (because of how many people here have the older s6) that they do shoot much faster. However, Jim Cox (a Trimble employee) confirmed that I am right that it takes at least 7 seconds for a semi active shot. That and the fact that this problem affects 2 newer s5's, and an s7 run by 2 different tsc7's and a tsc5, tells me that this is the normal operation. We are needing another robot, maybe I should convince the boss to get a used s6 instead?
When I "mix hardware and software" meaning using the Leica 1203+ with Trimble access, my shots only take about 1-2 seconds. It is slightly faster using fieldgenius but barely noticeable. The only issues I have running access with the Leica robot is that the joystick is not very responsive (it isn't great when using the s series but certainly much better) and powersearch doesn't work, it uses GPS search instead, which works okay under certain conditions only.
I would like it to shoot as fast with the s5 since the 14 year old Leica will likely not last forever and the boss "wants everyone on the same equipment". But it doesn't seem that this is possible.
A battery will keep those diodes blinking for a week, so the question of what to do when the battery dies is kind of moot.
That's not been my experience. They can sometimes die after less than 2 heavy work days. And since there is no way to check the battery level, and the green indicator isn't visible in bright sunlight I would say it's not moot.
I agree that 7-8 seconds to get a shot is ridiculous. It would render the function unusable. And the product unmarketable. Since the product markets very well, I have to presume that there is a fix to this problem.
I'd encourage you to test that for yourself, not just accept what you may be reading. Orienting the diodes to have one face the instrument as well as possible might be a comfort. But I never really found that to be an issue worth worrying about.
Yes I always point it the same direction to keep the same LEDs facing the robot. And sorry what were you referring to me testing myself vs what people say on the internet? Right now it seems the only person confirming my experience with the 7-10 seconds to shoot is the Trimble employee. I've been testing 2 s5's and one s7 and no way can I get a semi active shot in less than 7 seconds. Not sure how anyone else can do it, I'm pretty tech savvy and had close to 2 years of trying to find a solution and I do not believe there is one.
"And sorry what were you referring to me testing myself vs what people say on the internet?"
The virtue of using this semi-active business to a non-active target rather than just sticking with the MT1000 for all your work. Test that.
As far as all your shop's instrument behaving like this, I do believe you. But people outside of your shop are not experiencing this. Trimble would not sell many instruments if they did. Trimble sells a lot of product. Therefore, something must be funky in your shop.
I'm not taking the word of any Trimble flunky as gospel until I've tested it for myself.
BTW, I've been super impressed with your ability to jury-rig things that just shouldn't be jury-riggable. Nevertheless, Trimble S5s with Access are giving satisfactory service all over the world. They wouldn't have such a huge market share if everybody was experiencing what you are. So I'm thinking with the mindset that something must be funky.
I speak as a person that used Trimble for 20+years up until 3 years ago, when I switched to Leica (with some hard time served with Topcon mixed in). The switch from Trimble to Leica was more based on economics that any disappointment with Trimble performance. There are some things I like better about the Leica, some things I like better about the Trimble.
Jim, yes you are correct. But when in semi active mode the angles are collected from the pointing of the diodes and not the pointing at the prism. In passive mode the angles come from the prism. In active and semi active mode they come from the diodes. I had always thought in semi active mode all of the data both distance and angles came from the prism pointing. I just recently discovered this is not the case. Numerous Trimble representatives insisted this was how it worked and after experimenting with the various modes, I discovered they were correct. If your tracker collimation is out, you will see the same angles reported when using active mode and semi active mode. If your optical collimation is out it will only be reflected in passive mode.
I'm in semi active mode and getting bad vertical results. I do the adjust routine which includes the optical collimation. I don't do the tracker collimation. I can shoot vertically correct to sights I turn to but when using semi active mode I still am off on the zenith angles. Finally after more than 1 trip to the dealer, and the dealer saying the collimation is good. I discover the tracker collimation is bad. I argue the tracker collimation has no effect in semi active mode. They tell me I am wrong. They tell me in semi active mode all of the angles come from the tracker pointing to the diodes. I still do not believe them and I then collect a number of shots with forced bad collimations and good collimations. They were correct. All angles are from the tracker in semi active mode. I've proven it to myself and you can do the same. Shoot in semi active mode with screwed up optical collimations and good tracker collimations and you will see the angles come from the tracker pointing. Or vice versa, good optical collimations and bad tracker collimations will also show the angles come from the tracker pointing in semi active mode.
Just a little more on why this is important.
Trimble mt1000 prism does not have a good history for the durability of the diodes. Many people who use this prism think they are mitigating damaged diodes by using the semi active mode while using this prism. Unfortunately, the only benefit they are getting from semi active is the averaging of the distance verses the instantaneous resolution of the distance.
When shooting to the mt1000 in semi active mode you can see the gun change its pointing slightly to the center of the prism then returning to the tracker pointing. It is unfortunate the gun was not programmed to record these angles when it makes that pointing to the center of the prism. There are some thinking they are getting more precise data (angles and distance) by using the semi active mode, when in reality the only more precise data is the distance.
The way I understand it is that while in tracking active and semi-active are the same, following the diodes and shooting a distance. While in semi-active and standard it follows the diodes and when you take a measurement it switches to passive temporarily and measures angles and distances to the glass. It works great for me and I have not had any issues.
First, and most critically: the tracker is NOT just for the diodes - it is for both passive and active tracking.
Next....from the Trimble Geospatial Help website:
"When the tracking mode is set to semi‑active, the Target ID is used to track the prism, and then automatically switches to passive tracking mode when taking a standard measurement. This results in more precise vertical angle measurements."
Continuing to use the diodes for angular values when measuring would defeat the entire purpose of the MT1000 in semi-active mode, and would not improve vertical results. I don't know how these rumors get started, but they spread in less time than it takes to simply look at the S7 and MT1000 user guide and the Trimble website.
I'll be at Dimensions next week and will ask the folks who actually design and build these things.
They specifically say that it results in more precise vertical measurements. Is it assumed that distance measurements are the same in passive, active and semi-active or are they deliberately avoiding saying anything about that?
Rover83 I had the exact same interpretation as you from reading the exact same literature. I argued vehemently with the dealer and the Trimble reps. I can empirically prove what I have written. So can you. Set a bad tracker collimation in your gun. Set a good optical collimation in your gun. Shoot direct and reverse to an mt1000 in semi active mode. Shoot to the same prism in passive mode direct and reverse. Shoot to the same prism in active mode. Your passive data will be correct and the splits will be minimal. Your active data will be wrong and the splits will be similar to the forced bad collimation you created. Your semi active data will match your active data with the possibility of slight differences in the distance.
You can accomplish the same thing by setting a bad optical collimation and a good tracker collimation. The data you get will show that the semi active and tracker data match with slight differences in distance while the passive data will not. Run the test. You will get the same results I did. Is there a different explanation than semi active mode using the angles from the tracker pointing? When I refer to data above, I'm comparing the raw data (horizontal and zenith angles).
Dave-o Yes they do specifically say that. I think that is why it is so misleading. That never should have been stated that way when the improvement in the distance component is the only improvement to the vertical when using semi active mode.
Member
October 31, 2023 at 1:38 pm
Mike is quite correct in that it does take at least seven or eight seconds to switch the instrument from active to passive mode for a semi-active shot.
????
I’ve never had it take more than 2-3 seconds, even with previous-generation S6 instruments
Even with? Or only with? One of my theories is that they changed parts (firmware updates that I tried specifically said something to the effect of being for upcoming part supplier changes).
