Not all Dealers are a rip-off
While I too have had some bad experiences with dealers, I have had excellent service from my local Ford dealer.
I just had the hydraulic slave cylinder, clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing replaced, including the re-facing of the flywheel on my 4WD chariot for a total cost of $830.00. The parts came to $277.50.
Another local garage had estimated the job at $950 with a two week wait until he could get to it. The dealer had it back to me within two days.
The labor rate was $45/hr.
My truck now has 132k and still has the original pads. Rotors have a slight warp now that I heated them up with a heavy load. Still safe with plenty of pad left.
I'll adjust my pay scale as well, Rich :good:
Rick
Seems the economy is affecting everyone. My husbands work truck needed a repair, we got an estimate from the mechanic we have been going to for over 10 years. It seemed high so we called around and every other shop was at least $300 less.
I am sorry to say we will not be going back. $300 is a lot of money and pays a lot of bills.
> Deral, all I am saying is that I find get a lot more miles without warping out of new rotors than I do with ones that were milled down
Nitpick: a mill is a rotary cutting tool that can, but doesn't necessarily, move along the a vertical axis. It's applied to a workpiece that generally moves only along its horizontal axes, though I suppose you could have a rotating mill table.
Unless the procedures have changed since the last time I had brakes done (it's been awhile), rotors are resurfaced on a brake lathe. As with any lathe, the workpiece rotates but doesn't otherwise move, while the cutting tool moves along 2 horizontal axes. So when rotors are resurfaced, they're turned, not milled.
The contrary, I suppose, can be shown. But I've never seen it.
End of nitpick.
On a $900 brake job I would expect new everything front and back, pack the bearings, rotate and balance the tires with a heck of a mileage guarantee for full coverage for any rattle or squeak and want the car to detailed when they deliver it and possibly new wiper blades.
It seems every year it is harder and harder to find a qualified mechanic that is affordable.
Reckon I am going to find out because this spring my Tacoma will be due an all around brake job.
Check rockauto.com for parts
The guys at the shop tell me the newer vehicles have such thin rotors that you're lucky to get one turn on them and then they are below specs and need replacing. They're not allowed to turn them if they go below specs. I did a couple brake jobs this summer.
Mill?
Never heard that specific definition. But then again, I'm not a machinist.
Here's what the dictionary says relative to what "mill" means in the context of metal:
Mill:
4.
a. A machine, such as one for stamping coins, that produces something by the repetition of a simple process.
b. A steel roller bearing a raised design, used for making a die or a printing plate by pressure.
c. Any of various machines for shaping, cutting, polishing, or dressing metal surfaces.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
4c seems to fit the bill.
The thin stock rotors are part of the auto industry's attempt to meet CAFE standards. The only proven way to meet the miles per gallon standards is to reduce the weight of the vehicle. Thus, less steel, more plastic.
Mill.
From Wikipedia:
Mill (grinding): equipment for the grinding or pulverizing of grain and other raw materials using millstones
Mill (factory): a place of business for making articles of manufacture.
Milling machine: metalworking machine that operates by rotating a cutting bit while the workpiece is moved against the cutter on an XY table. (Any milling machine I’ve ever used allowed the workpiece to be moved in three axes, X, Y and Z)
John Stuart Mill (1806–1873): an influential classical liberal thinker and philosopher of the 19th century. (Just to see if somebody will blow a fuse and get this thread re-categorized as P&R).
Brake Rotor Lathe
End Milling Machine
Horizontal Milling Machine
Technically, Jim is correct. Brake drums and rotors are resurfaced by turning on a lathe. However, to be fair, I have often heard the term “mill” used to describe the removal of metal from a part by whatever means.
It does seem it's harder to find a good mechanic that's not gouging you. Maybe people think the same thing about surveyors now that money's tight. It used to be you could quote whatever you wanted for a survey job and the clincher was how soon you could do it. If there is an auto mechanic message board, they're probably talking about it right now: How are we supposed to make a decent living, send our kids to college, retire with a substantial nest-egg when these shade-tree low-ballers are taking all our business with no overhead, no insurance, blah, blah...
Reference back to previous post: "SUSPECT IS CONSIDERED ARMED"
Daniel S. McCabe , Ponchatoula, LA, Wednesday, January 12, 2011, 19:47
So befitting!
CV
Rotors Once Warped And Then Trued
Will have thin and thick spots. The difference in thickness once they are heated up will rewarp them sooner. Even if the warping is in the steel inner ring the result of the ends up in the cast rotor area.
Service stations will not (or legally may not) put on new brakes without truing the rotors. That is why I do most brake jobs myself. Yes, they will not last as long as if the rotors were trued. But then thinner rotors don't last as long either. I can throw on a third set of pads and get more life for the money since pads or truing about balance out.
Paul in PA
Specifics vs. general
> Reference back to previous post: "SUSPECT IS CONSIDERED ARMED"
> Daniel S. McCabe , Ponchatoula, LA, Wednesday, January 12, 2011, 19:47
>
> So befitting!
>
> CV
Befitting?
I'm not the one being a wonk trying to hold to narrow definitions and specifics when given terms with demonstrably broader general and accepted usage.
I was demonstrating "mill" has broader general and acccepted usage meaning use of a machine for removing, polishing and dressing metal. Specifics don't matter until you get into the exact application.
"Clip" has broader colloquial usage as a means of holding ammunition together for loading. Specifics don't matter until you get into the specific application. A stripper clip is different than an en bloc clip which is different than a magazine as an example.
Surveyors say "gun" yet it refers to the instrument in general as opposed to specifically meaning total station versus transit, it similarly has broader usage. Specifics don't matter until you get into the exact application.
Rotors Once Warped And Then Trued
Yes, it isn't too important if the pads wear out a little faster if you are putting on $40 pads yourself versus $hundreds to have it done "right". If you still have enough stopping power to skid the tires on dry pavement and no serious shake, then it's good enough.
Loyal
you see these people with automatic transmissions driving everywhere with their brake lights on; they have the right foot on the gas and the left on the brake (at all times). Those guys need new brakes a lot 🙂
We drove back over 500 miles on Thursday and I was passenger for a change. I see a lot of people actually accelerate up to the slow down then slam on the brakes, they fall back so they gun it, then slam on the brakes. Or they go burning down the number 1 lane at 90 right up to the line of vehicles going 60 and hard brake down to 60. We shake our heads (both of us on my crew are fairly sedate drivers).
Not all Dealers are a rip-off
I have had the same good experience with Harrold Ford here.
They are reasonable and do a good job.
I used to go to independent mechanics and found them to be much more fly by the seat of the pants replace this no replace that no etc. The dealer seems to know what needs to be done.
I don't think there is any universal truth about any of the three methods, dealer, independent or shade-tree do-it-yourselfers.
All other things being equal and playing the odds I would rather buy a used car that has been dealer maintained than the other two. My experience is obviously limited to me but I've done all three and the dealer maintained vehicles have won, hands down. Don't even get me started about the shade-tree mechanic vehicle; I shudder to think of the goofball, weird stuff the previous owner did (like my house, why floor tile in the garage, aaarrrrrrgh).
do you suppose 2/3 of the threads on the Mechanics Message Forum are P&R; endless arguing about this or that?
They probably have one older retired Federal mechanic predicting the end of the world, etc.
One Other Point, I Don't Live In Deral Land
Here in hilly curvy PA we just cannot reasonably drive as fast.
The faster you drive, the better your brakes need to be.
I had not considered the driver or the location in my previous post.
Fastest I have been is 135 mph in a 1967 L88 Corvette.
Fastest I have driven is 115 mph in a 1958 Ford, former police car, only a 2 barrel 292 cubic inch V8.
Paul in PA
