I have discovered 3 alternate connection pathways to broadcast long range RTK using a TDL450 and Trimble R8 base receiver for RTK work. I'm looking for simplicity to reduce the cabling confusion with the Ologists I support, while ensuring I get the greatest battery life when we leave the base and Radio for 8 hours or more due to the remoteness in our projects.
Two connection pathways include the 15pin serial connect or Lemo connection. Both restrict the distance I can set the TDL 450 from the base. A specific survey style must be made to allow these two types of connection. The 15pin allows me to power the R8 base with a cowbell, but the TDL450 requires another car battery for power. The Lemo connection (Port 1) eliminates the extra cowbell for powering the R8 allowing the car battery to charge both R8 and TDL 450 at same time with the appropriate splitter cable.
Yet another approach is to set the TDL 450 up as a repeater. The R8 connected to a cowbell (thru Lemo Port 1) and my TDL 450 in a better location for signal output. In this scenario, my ologists may use the R8 with or without the TDL 450 (one survey style) so its more simple to the user. Is there a power downside to this approach? I'm assuming the R8 at base is expending more energy with this type of connection.
Advice on approach is appreciated.
Best way is to use the rs232 serial connection. Then use what I call a Lantern battery to power the base thru the port. Those are the batteries used in back up supplies that trimble send with them. Then use a car battery to power radio thru the sae pigtail. Don't use the car battery to power base as well. I was doing this at 35 watt and after about 7 hours the battery voltage would drop just enough to shut off base. So I'd drive back to it and find all things powered on but the survey stopped. Took me a while to figure it out. Those radios are notorious power hogs, turn power down if and when you are close enough.....
Jon Collins, post: 379157, member: 11135 wrote: Best way is to use the rs232 serial connection. Then use what I call a Lantern battery to power the base thru the port. Those are the batteries used in back up supplies that trimble send with them. Then use a car battery to power radio thru the sae pigtail. Don't use the car battery to power base as well. I was doing this at 35 watt and after about 7 hours the battery voltage would drop just enough to shut off base. So I'd drive back to it and find all things powered on but the survey stopped. Took me a while to figure it out. Those radios are notorious power hogs, turn power down if and when you are close enough.....
Jon,
Thanks. I like your approach. Goal is to keep the survey running as long as possible and preserve power. I have tried all 3 and did not have a long enough experience with any of them to decide on the approach. Survey styles and my cheatsheets will handle the rest.
Joel
Can you put a solar charger on it?
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The TDL 450 is not only a power hog, it will overheat and shut down. We never run them on 35w; typically we go with 16, or possibly 25. Radio power is not linear, it's logarithmic - you have to increase your wattage by a factor of 10 to effectively double your range. So you don't see that much of a drop off. NEI in LA (Trimble dealer) sells whip antenna brackets that can be used on both base and rover; these will increase your range considerably. It's definitely a best practice to keep the radio in the shade and in a location that allows good air flow across the heat sinks.
My preference is to run the R8 base using the internal transmitter, and run the TDL 450 as a repeater. That way if I don't need the range of the TDL I don't need to go through the extra hassle of setting it up, and if I do need it I can position it to give me the optimum performance. If you put a fresh internal battery in the R8 and then connect the Trimble cowbell you should get 10 - 12 hours with no problem.
Car batteries are not a good choice for powering the radio, that's not what they're made for. Get a battery that is made to be charged frequently and discharged over time by a load. We switched to batteries made for Hoveround chairs and our (at the time constant) battery problems vanished literally overnight. If you get one with 35Ah (amp hour) capacity it should literally be able to power the radio for days - although obviously we charge them after each use. These batteries are much smaller and lighter than car batteries and are also an excellent alternative to the Trimble cowbell at the R8, which only has a 5 to 7 (can't remember exactly) Ah capacity. Our local Batteries + carries both the battery and a nifty battery box for it.
If you're running R8III receivers with current firmware, you should be able to use the TMIII at 9600 protocol, otherwise use the TT450s at 8000. Anything slower is both too slow to repeat multi-constellation messages and putting too much stress on the radio. Higher baud rate = shorter transmission time = longer battery life and less heat buildup. Also use CMRx corrections, not CMR+; it's a lot more compressed and uses much less bandwidth.
Doing any one thing I said above will increase your performance; doing all of them will increase it dramatically.
Agree with you Lee. Also by car battery I meant a deep cycle car size battery, I assumed Joel knew that.
Lee D., Jon,
Thanks so much for the sage advice. I did not have the best support up here in AK for years, and bought the TDL 450 with zero support. Now, the new dealer in town has been very straight and told me they had concerns with my TDL settings (35W, and my current connections). Hence the thread. I've been told the TDL 450 comes shipped with "worldwide settings". Designed to work anywhere, but not optimum for my typical workflow (long, unattended base transmission from TDL 450). I'll take the TDL 450 in for a systems overhaul to dealer which will switch the OPERATING mode on the TDL to Repeater and settle on that. Dealer disagree's with my 35W setting as well. Luckily my radio stays pretty cool up here in typical scenarios but have a need to often move the external radio far from my base setup to maximize range by higher elevation. I have rarely use the rubber ducky short antenna on base R8 (reinforced by Lee D.'s comments) and typically extend the height for my transmitting base using coaxial and higher gain antennas (again - thanks Lee D.). All has been a learning experience, but appreciate this sounding board and recommendations.
This third approach using my R8 as transmitter and TDL450 as repeater makes my users happier too from more complex connections and simpler survey styles. I struggle with supporting the 'Ologists' and will use this new info to further simplify our workflows. Thanks for the scoop on battery's too.
Joel. I'll close out this thread.
GISJoel_GetItSurveyed, post: 379393, member: 11867 wrote: Lee D., Jon,
Thanks so much for the sage advice. I did not have the best support up here in AK for years, and bought the TDL 450 with zero support. Now, the new dealer in town has been very straight and told me they had concerns with my TDL settings (35W, and my current connections). Hence the thread. I've been told the TDL 450 comes shipped with "worldwide settings". Designed to work anywhere, but not optimum for my typical workflow (long, unattended base transmission from TDL 450). I'll take the TDL 450 in for a systems overhaul to dealer which will switch the OPERATING mode on the TDL to Repeater and settle on that. Dealer disagree's with my 35W setting as well. Luckily my radio stays pretty cool up here in typical scenarios but have a need to often move the external radio far from my base setup to maximize range by higher elevation. I have rarely use the rubber ducky short antenna on base R8 (reinforced by Lee D.'s comments) and typically extend the height for my transmitting base using coaxial and higher gain antennas (again - thanks Lee D.). All has been a learning experience, but appreciate this sounding board and recommendations.This third approach using my R8 as transmitter and TDL450 as repeater makes my users happier too from more complex connections and simpler survey styles. I struggle with supporting the 'Ologists' and will use this new info to further simplify our workflows. Thanks for the scoop on battery's too.
Joel. I'll close out this thread.
I'll agree on the support improvement here in Alaska.
However, you shouldn't need to bring the TDL to the dealer to switch the operating mode - it can be switched using the the keys right on the unit (scroll through the menu in the same way as changing power), or alternatively through the R8 radio configuration screen on the data collector.
We typically use our TDLs as repeaters rather than a base radio as well, and don't often go over 16W - maybe 25 now and then. Around here it's usually terrain and obstructions rather than distance that is a problem. Boosting the power doesn't force the signal through mountains and thick tree stands.
And we will occasionally use a cheap foam cooler with some spray insulation for a customized battery insulator in the winter months; using a cowbell with the base will certainly run it down faster.
Y'all have issues up there that we don't have in Louisiana - down here for most of the year we're trying to figure out how to prevent things from overheating. There is no question that as the temperature goes south of freezing battery performance drops off; a battery insulator in winter is a good idea. I'd probably try to find a safe way to put the radio in the same container; that way the heat generated by the radio could help keep the battery warm.
I had heard of he ineptitude of the former Trimble dealer up there; I'm sure Frontier Precision is a welcomed change.
Frontier is our dealer. They aren't too bad.