I have witnessed very intelligent, highly skilled professionals do everything but publicly pee their pants when put in a position to speak?ÿ before a group of their peers, no matter if that group consisted of five or six or five- or six-hundred.?ÿ The fear of failure can be crippling.
How best to educate??ÿ Certainly a difficult question that has the potential to tread into difficult, and perhaps unpleasant, waters.?ÿ Should the size of a company, or outward impressions of its success, make them responsible for educating surveyors??ÿ Would an employee be willing to contract with a company for a specified period in order to offset the cost of education even if a breach of the agreement required reimbursement??ÿ
More concerning is what's going to happen when an AI system can instantly recognize most features from aerial data and cut out low level CAD techs??ÿ Will remote sensing end the need for surveyors to gather topographic data?
I grew up having to do everything myself so it's not easy to think that others owe me anything.?ÿ My knee jerk reaction, which I've learned not to always trust, makes me think anyone hinging their future on the actions of others has already adopted a victim attitude and will find a way to be ungrateful no matter what their imperfect employer does.?ÿ Simultaneously, I can't understand why an employer wouldn't invest in employees that go the extra mile. Even if they leave, the good will gets advertised and will attract other quality employees.
Who owes what to whom?
@holy-cow I was one of those but this Mean crusty old ?ÿGunny scared me more than doing a brief. I eventually learned to not let the fear control me. Now I have briefed and taught to a lot of lower level and extremely high level people in my career and I still have to run to the bathroom right before just encase. But I usually take a deep breath and go get the job done. Only because i was pushed and made the first time. I am thankful to that old Gunny to this day. When I got to college for the first time and had my first major exam I froze and just sat in the chair until the professor told me time was up and class was over. I didn??t even get my name on the paper. He pushed me and worked me through it all for major test. He said it was some test anxiety thing of some sort. I failed every major exam that was written my first two semesters but aced the same exams verbally. I have overcome that some as well but don??t look in the woods by where I parked June 1st before the FS exam. Lol. It hit me hard once I parked. I just had to take a minute and pull myself together. ?ÿI don??t know why it happens but it does. You are correct though some of the smartest people can??t teach thats just reality. I know some people that are not the brightest but they somehow can sit with the very smart people and teach or train like a mad man. We are all different having are strengths and weaknesses. We just have to use each other??s strengths to offset our weaknesses to keep the profession rolling and growing. This forum makes a good start and a tool that can be used for sure.
@rover83 It is interesting that the program you linked had a core curriculum that included: Business Law I, Organizational Theory and Behavior, Economic Analysis and Operations, and Professional Ethics.
It is nice to see a little emphasis on the business and organization side of professional practice.?ÿ Really nice to see a course geared directly towards Professional Ethics.?ÿ It looks like the ethics course was in the philosophy department.?ÿ Was it well geared towards professional ethics or was it more of a philosophy class?
It's funny you mention those particular courses, because I really enjoyed them.
I took Business Law online due to scheduling conflicts with my work schedule - I was still a full-time employee and had to try and restrict classes to two days a week tops. But I did like it because I am not a natural with accounting and money.
Organizational Theory was a good course on how humans function in groups in work settings, and the various ways in which leaders can influence their team. Both positive and negative, because it really shed some light on how terrible leadership was (and is) at the various firms I have been employed by.
Professional Ethics was not just a theoretical philosophy class, although it was taught by a philosophy professor. We had students from engineering, computer science, medical/nursing, natural sciences, and humanities in the course. Did a lot of case studies including the Challenger mission, Enron, Enigma/Coventry, etc. Great course, although not everyone took it seriously...
this Mean crusty old ?ÿGunny scared me
I'm no Marine, but isn't this a baseline standard for all Gunnies??ÿ they live to terrorize the non hackers and shape up the killers like Senior DI Gunny Hartman....
beers on me when we get time Oleman....
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8pP15y3Wu7s
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@jitterboogie oh lol well that movie is not far off for bootcamp. Once in the fleet things change a little depending on unit and mos and mission. I have seen the big teddy bears and the well a$$$$$ holes just like in real life. I always tried to learn from them all. You see there were leaders and then there were people with rank you had to obey. The leaders you obeyed because of earned respect and trust. ?ÿThe ones with more rank you obeyed because you just had to. ?ÿHe was a good leader yes he chewed me out and made me better. Lol. I don??t mind a beer or two for sure. ?ÿWe should have a forum reunion or something lol so we can all get together. ?ÿI have learned a lot on this forum. It??s a good resource for sure. Some great people here. Some very wise and smart ones as well. I owe a few here for a beer as well.
@geeoddmike I had a lecturer who said something that has stuck with me more than any of the parametric least squares nuts and bolts he taught us: "South African employers expect ready-made employees". He was berating the lack of investment in training across many different sectors, of upskilling the people at the coalface, and the high staff turnover this tends to produce.
Many employers still complain that graduates haven't seen and experienced every possible scenario at university (town planning applications and sectional title, for instance, are hardly hinted at in varsity), without appreciating that the entire goal of a university degree is to train the professional to?ÿthink, where if you know the basics, everything else is a matter of reading and research.
@am95405 I agree on the need for CAD - we didn't have a CAD course in my undergrad, and folks were still struggling to do decent layouts in fourth year. All my CAD know-how came from my high school drawing classes and work experience before studying at university, so a CAD course, even one semester of, would have gone a long way for many of my peers.
Most 4-year Surveying schools cover the broad area of classes discussed, if not required, as electives. The classes that I am glad I took now, that I was not glad I took then, were dendrology, spherical astronomy, trucks and tractors and (yes it does not show, but) technical writing. This past year, the Water Boundaries Law class has redeemed itself.
I agree, CAD should be taught more.?ÿ I've worked with many new surveying graduates, and while they were very knowledgeable, it seemed that they lacked a lot of practical skills that would allow them to have an immediate impact.?ÿ
CAD is definitely a skill that would make a new graduate/employee very valuable.?ÿ Also, experience running instruments and knowledge of basic field procedures would be good.?ÿ
And I don't know of any graduate who knew much about doing a level run.?ÿ Come to think of it, I know a lot of experienced survey techs who wouldn't be able to competently perform a level run for any real distance or rugged terrain.?ÿ Maybe it's becoming a lost art.
