Norman got me to thinking about the difference between a Professional and a Tradesman. I'll go out on a limb and say that the difference is whether you work in an office or out in "the field." For members of this forum, if your Avatar shows you ankle-deep in mud, running a gun or plumbing a rod, you're probably a "field" guy; if you're in a nice Armani suit with a $300 neck tie, well, you're definitely a Professional.
Here's a rough hierarchy:
1. Office Surveyor, several P.H.D.'s and licensed in 20 states.
2. Office Surveyor, no degree, but licensed in the state he works.
3. Party Chief, licensed in 3 states.
4. Party Chief, LSIT.
5. Party Chief, no degree, no license and no desire to get either.
6. Instrument Operator. Hopeless, really.
7. Rod Man. Even hopelesser.
8. Tradesman.
9. Laborer.
Interestingly, when I was an instrument operator about a decade ago, if some construction boss came on the job wanting to talk to The Surveyor, he'd walk over to me, because I was standing next to the total station, punching buttons on the data collector. I would refer him to the hub-pounding Rod Man, who was my Party Chief and a PLS. I always enjoyed the quizzical look that got.
Dave
With all due respect I could not disagree more.
A Professional works with their client to develop a plan to address the problem or issue of the client.
A trades person takes direction from the client on what is to be done.
Nobody goes to a doctor and tells him (or her) which tests to order or meds to prescribe.
An electrician is told where the client wants each switch or outlet and how they should work with the rest of the system.
Where we are located (in the field on a cell phone or behind a nice desk in an office) makes no difference to the client. What does (or should) matter to the client is properly addressing their concern, opportunity or problem.
Larry P
PS: My avatar used to be me in a tux. Am I less a professional wearing the glasses in the current photo? Nothing about me changed when I changed the photo.
[sarcasm]Don't let my clothes fool anyone[/sarcasm] or the lack thereof.
From the 1960s, I remember my dad loading the family into the sedan one day to go see the banker about buying a bull.
We drove into his farm and found him about 100 yards away from his house by a well drawing water by hand taking his bath.
So, I don't understand your list either.
Professionalism to me is more about the manner in which you conduct your business and not about how you dress or where you consider your office.
When defining a professional, we should consider the word itself. A professional is someone with something to "profess", or speak, to his client. He is paid for his knowledge. Being paid for what you do doesn't make you a true professional. That's why a "professional" athlete or entertainer is not a professional at all.
Larry,
I love your glasses. Was your tux an Armani?
Allow me to elaborate. I was using Hyperbole (exageration) to comment on the perception that Professionals are "better" than Tradesmen. Most don't see any difference in the "worth" of either "class," but some surveyors get really sniffy about it. As an example, try posting something about the results of the work of an "unlicensed" surveyor. The howling! Cover your ears.
I gave up irony at the first of the year. It's wasted on the very people who should be able to laugh at themselves. I'm working on giving up snark, too, but it'll take a while.
If you perceive my post as an insult to Professionals, then you can't read. Or I can't write.
Dave
CB,
One of the paths to understanding is making finer and finer distinctions of how similar things are different and how different things are similar.
What is it about a Professional Athlete that is professional? Why use the word if it's unnecessary?
While there are surveyors, especially the solos, that work both in the office and in the field, most surveyors stick to one or the other. Now, if you call a Party Chief a "Professional," he'll grin ear to ear. If you call an Office Surveyor a Tradesman, you better duck. That is my point. Tell me I'm wrong.
Dave
>
> If you perceive my post as an insult to Professionals, then you can't read. Or I can't write.
>
> Dave
No worries about being perceived as insulting. Frankly I am not very good at telling when people are serious and when they are being facetious. Sadly I've met far too many people who pretty much believe exactly what you wrote. The solution to all the problems of the profession lie in getting us all to dress more sharply in the morning.
Perhaps my view of the world today is tainted by an experience of yesterday. Heard this fellow start speaking by saying that Mormons were definitely not Christian and were headed straight to hell. During the course of the next hour he got around to ... Muslims, Jews, Catholics, Buddhists, Scientologists, Jehovah Witnesses, Atheists, Hindus and every other group you can think of that did not believe exactly 100% as he did. Upon reading that it would be really easy to conclude the whole thing a prank. Sadly, I think he was very sincere in that belief.
So like I said, not good at spotting sarcasm.
Larry P
Larry,
" The solution to all the problems of the profession lie in getting us all to dress more sharply in the morning."
I could not have said that better. You just one-upped me. 😉
Dave
Nothing about a "professional" athlete is truly professional, and the term shouldn't be used. That doesn't make them less as people. They certainly have skills that I will never have. The simply aren't true professionals. They want the title of "professional", I suppose, because it carries more respect, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it should.
At the same time, I consider myself to be a professional. But being solo, I spend as much time covered in mud as I do sitting at a desk. I don't think my appearance changes my status.
I usually run the rod and I'm the RLS. Does that make me a professional rodman?
Seems to me this all a question of semantics. Just saying. To me there two distinctions. Professional and amateur and tradesmen are definitely not amateurs.
Professional Context
> Nothing about a "professional" athlete is truly professional, and the term shouldn't be used. That doesn't make them less as people. They certainly have skills that I will never have. The simply aren't true professionals. They want the title of "professional", I suppose, because it carries more respect, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it should.
>
> At the same time, I consider myself to be a professional. But being solo, I spend as much time covered in mud as I do sitting at a desk. I don't think my appearance changes my status.
when you say Professional Actor or Athlete; I think you are refering to a Professional as opposed to amateur rather than Tradesman...
I had a situation for 20 years that put me in an office among other county officials once per week.
So, I at least wore a tie one day a week for 20 years, sometimes a bit more.
For 20 years, people saw me with a tie and thought I was up to something. I agree that a professional should dress like one, but unless you are in court, expect a lot of snyde remarks, not professional respect.
Professional Context
I just think the word "professional" has been widely misused for so long that it has become accepted as having a different meaning than it was originally intended to have.
CB,
"They want the title of 'professional', I suppose, because it carries more respect..."
Respect. Nicely boiled down to one word. Is respect enough for a successful life? Is respect lessened if it's unearned? Should we even care if we're respected if we're certain our path is right? Have you ever been dis-respected undeservedly(to you)? Did you shrug, or plot revenge?
Tomorrow, I'm going to scour eBay for a nice Armani suit and a $300 neck tie. Then I'm going job-hunting.
Dave
David, Please Name One Number 1 Candidate
I mean a PhD being an office surveyor pretty much indicates he is crazy, not a professional.
Paul in PA
