ABET Acredited distance education update

Congratulations on your news. I'm glad to hear that credit is being allowed without ABET "approval".

In my opinion ABET is now a miserably outdated and archaic approach to the solution to higher education accreditation in land surveying. It does not meet the needs of the profession today.

Surveying programs at the undergraduate level and graduate level are being moved forward to more flexible delivery options, such as distance learning, by forward looking educators nationwide. ABET is stuck in a decades-old inflexible bricks and mortar approach to higher education.

Carl, ABET Does Not Seek Out Surveying Programs

It is up to the engineering or surveying program to request acrreditation. ABET has no funding to continually monitor all programs. When requested to do so it reviews a program, sets goals for it if necessary and comes back 4-5 years later.

ABET is based on results, not how the program is presented.

However, when it comes down to numbers, a distance course in most cases would show lower results. Because distance learning is so convenient it sometimes attracts less dedicated students. Distance learning is harder to monitor from the instructor standpoint than classroom learning. The instructor may not see a student in trouble until it is too late. Often a student may switch to a regular curriculum to receive the degree, and the results go in their column. ABET might have to be creative and o additional work to accredit a distance only program.

My suggestion would be that someone with a dog in the race, such as a national surveying society move forward with promoting a distance learning education criteria with the schools, the states and the NCEES.

In my opinion ABET accreditation of distance learning will become more important as states continue the Continuing Education trend. Practicing professionals do find it a step or two harder than those aspiring to the profession to get the more traditional education.

As an aside, states specify an ABET accredited course because they do not have the time or money to vet every program out there. In most cases they accept non accredited programs within their state under legislator's pressure. If it is the only program within a state's borders, they must almost de facto accept it. Return to my suggestion above.

Paul in PA

Carl, ABET Does Not Seek Out Surveying Programs

> .... Because distance learning is so convenient it sometimes attracts less dedicated students.

Jeez Louise. Years and years of debating experience over education and I finally give in and enroll in an online program at the University of Florida to get the ball rolling, and now thats not good enough? FML

Carl, ABET Does Not Seek Out Surveying Programs

> > .... Because distance learning is so convenient it sometimes attracts less dedicated students.
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> Jeez Louise. Years and years of debating experience over education and I finally give in and enroll in an online program at the University of Florida to get the ball rolling, and now thats not good enough? FML

Congratulations Roadie!:-)

Ralph

Paul in PA, please read this....

You stated:

"However, when it comes down to numbers, a distance course in most cases would show lower results."

Please tell us where you got your numbers. In researching your assertion, I came up with this:

"Research studies have been quite consistent in finding that distance learning classrooms report similar effectiveness results as reported under traditional instruction methods. In addition, research studies often point out that student attitudes about distance learning are generally positive."

Dr. John G. Flores, USDLA

Carl, Reread My Whole Post

Yes, sometimes it is the casual less dedicated individual that bails on a program.

But the real reason I believe is that the serious student is more likely to at some point get into a classroom based program before the degree and the following FS and PS testing. In that case the credit goes to the final classroom program and not the earlier distance program.

Typically the testers ask, "where is your degree from?" not "can you give a breakdown of all education sources and credits?"

When I transferred and enrolled at NJIT, they requested and I submitted "official" transcripts from Lehigh University, Northampton County Community College, County College of Morris, Middlesex County College and Warren County College. As best as I recall NCEES and the PA State Board did not ask for such a detailed breakdown.

It is not a knock on the quality of the distance learning but a recognition of the dynamics of the students.

That is why I suggest some alternate or additional way of testing the distance learning programs.

Paul in PA

Paul in PA, I read your post three times

....before responding to it.

I'm glad that we are now in agreement about the basics premise and value of distance learning.

As an NJIT product, I'm sure that you are aware of the excellent reputation the school has in distance learning due to it's forward-looking commitment to it.

And young surveying prospects today are not really interested in your personal process of education and the tests you took in the distant past, any more than they would be interested in my quest for a bachelor's degree in the 1960's and the tests I took in the 1970's. They look at that as old-fogeyism and rightly so.

I'm in favor of encouraging younger people to get into surveying if they seem to have a real calling for it. Some do not live in Pennsylvania or Ohio as you and I do, so they do not have a school within a couple of hour's drive. Some others have no choice but to work full time and try to get the education that is available to them. That requires an immense commitment but the few who can do it should have the opportunity, ABET notwithstanding.

The bottom line is that all have to do the internship and pass the tests.

Carl, Not Quite An NJIT Product

I was one surveying course, a technical writing course and a statistics course short of meeting the surveying degree requirements in 2001. I got my PA license because of NJIT but never went back to complete their program and get an NJ license to go along with my NJ PE. Oddly Lehigh did not require a statistics course in Civil Engineering. Also I petitioned the NJIT Emglish Department for credit by exam for Technical Writing. The basis being the numerous technical reports I had written as a PE. The head of English appeared to have a conflict with the Engineering Technology program and they could never come to a conclusion. BTW, I did receive credit for the Surveying Land Development course based on my numerous subdivisions as a PE. I believe the current surveung course requirements are different, but not to my bebefit. Some day I'll go in and sit down with Laramie Potts. Taking the course now would satisfy the PA PDH requirements for the next 1 1/2 cycles/

Paul in PA