Working along Native American boundary lines
I wonder how many different tribal names have existed in the 48 contiguous states since the arrival of the Europeans.
And then there is the problem of sorting out multiple names for the same people. Usually each tribe had a different name for the same neighbor, and called themselves some variation of “the people.” Europeans got a lot of those names mixed up and often the wrong one stuck. See my above post about Fox/Meskwakie/Sac and Fox.
It is similar to stupid Americans using Germany for Deutchland, Holland for Netherlands, Spain for Espa?ña, Burma vs Myanmar, Ceylon vs SriLanka and many others.
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Very interesting stuff, shows how poorly the Indians were treated.
I always pronounced it Ar-Kan-Zus river, I was born along the river in Wichita.
You can survey along state lines, reservation lines, ect. They are monumented with mile markers for a reason. There is not a problem retracing these lines, re-monumenting them is a different issue. For example I re-traced 15 miles of state line, it originally was monumented with mile markers then re-monumented by the BLM, 6 miles of it shows mile markers on the new plat with the note it was not monumented, for those six miles I only tie into the new closing corners for the other nine miles I tie the mile markers. I did not put new caps along the mile markers not monumented. Those I left blank like the BLM plat. If your boundary is a state line or reservation line of course you can survey it.
“Reservation Boundaries may only be resurveyed by BLM Surveyors or CFeds license holders, WITH THE APPROVAL OF THE TRIBE.”
That statement isn’t correct. The Fed’s boundary will eventually be contiguous with land under the State jurisdiction. Half of the reservation boundary line is on the reservation, half isn’t. Further, much tribal land is under the State’s jurisdiction, unless it is held by the US government. Typically the US army holds the land an is administered by the BIA. Beyond the exterior boundary, all the reservation land is held in common and the allotments inside in the reservation are not real boundary lines, more like lease lines.
Why are Americans stupid for speaking American english?
It’s the TV people. Pronouncing Appalachian with a long a, Nor instead of Naw for Norfolk, putting the accent on the last syllable of Monroe, NC instead of on the first syllable. New Orleans and Louisville are others that TV gets wrong, not to mention omitting the unseen t that’s present in the pronunciation of Wilson, NC.
The residents of a particular place know its pronunciation and others should honor that. World peace would certainly ensue.
There is just as much BLM surveying going on now was there ever was.
Your correction of Jim’s statement is right, but the US Army has nothing to do with most Indian Land, federal or not.
If you do survey up against federal land make sure you get the boundary right under federal law. The tribes will not hesitate to get BLM to resurvey their boundaries if they think a private surveyor made a mistake the negatively effects them.
Not where I am, not even close.
In Missouri they have Nuh-vay-duh spelled the same.
In Missouri they have Nuh-vay-duh spelled the same.
Iowa has a Nuh-vay-duh also.
And a Monti-sell-o, and a Dell-high spelled Delhi, and a Mad-rid spelled Madrid, and Oh-see-oh-la Osceola and Sig-or-knee Sigourney, and Vai-oh-la Viola.
.About 45 years ago I worked with a lady named Marietta. She said it was Marie-tuh and then would clarify it was pronounced the same as the city in Georgia.
I thought San Francisco was ‘the City.’ ????
I’m just one of those evil GIS people. Bwah-hah-hah! Seriously, I do coordinate systems and transformations at Esri.According to Jack Webb………………………………
“This is the city–Los Angeles, California.” “I carry a badge.” “My name’s Friday.”
With the help of congress the Oklahoma and Indian Territory dissolved the established tribal boundaries prior to statehood. These lands were then allotted to tribal citizens. In doing so, almost exclusively, this made the boundaries ‘fit’ the GLO’s PLSS system. The only exception I can think of is the Osage Nation; remaining sovereign for a while after statehood. It’s boundaries are now what we call Osage County…where Ree Drummond (The Pioneer Woman on the Food Channel) and her hubby run a cattle ranch.
There were several older sovereign boundaries in Indian Territory that were established in the early 1800’s. These predated the GLO original survey by 50 years or more. The original GLO lines supposedly closed on these senior lines but poor surveying created great confusion; in some cases the error approached 10 chains or more. A few court cases and everything was pretty much settled by the time the 20th. century tolled around.
Tribal lands (and boundaries) now are surveyed at the discretion of the tribe. Conveyances dealing with any sovereign or trust lands require a review and approval by the BLM, but as of now there is no hard-and-fast rule to require anything other than an Oklahoma surveyor’s license.
I surveyed my great grandmothers Citizen Band Potawatomi ALLOTMENT about 12 miles east of Norman OK last year. The allotment was deeded by President Benjamin Harrison in 1891. The reason the CBP tribe -now Citizen Potawatomi Nation – broke off from the prairie band Potawatomi is because after 40 broken treaties – the record of broken treaties by one Tribe – the new band was tired of trying the treaty route, and chose to become citizens which qualified them for allotments that could be settled by a single family. Today the same land is occupied by a vetenarian, there is one oil pump on it, and a casino just a few miles away, and my great grandmother sold the property after many years of a prosperous life.
Thanks to Paden Cash, who found that deed, and and helped me understand some of the pitfalls of Oklahoma surveys. His advise was spot on. Enjoyed the survey, but some of that oak was brutal.
There are numerous twists and turns in defining “Native American boundaries”.
Some of the land is held in trust. Some is owned fee by a particular tribe, other parts by a particular indians or indians. Then you have variants of ceded and acquired lands.
The only thing the blanket statements have in common is they are all wrong. The bundle of rights associated with real property are unique to the facts related to the parcel being discussed. Adding trust status or indian ownership can complicate the fact pattern, mainly because many of us don’t deal with it that often..
I will admit that when I started this thread I was only thinking of the very old boundaries that no longer apply. In my local case those boundaries came into existence prior to the GLO work to create the PLSS. Thus, the Indians moved out prior to the creation of our townships and sections, but the cited boundaries do create some odd section sizes, shapes and lotting.
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