Activity Feed › Discussion Forums › Strictly Surveying › Where are all the up and comers?
- Posted by: @rover83
But I think we’ve painted ourselves into a corner by being unwilling to pay based upon talents and skill set, and being way more focused on licensure and seniority.
There’s currently a big push at my employer to train more PMs and do more “strategic hires”. Even as they acknowledge what we really need are highly skilled and technically competent project surveyors and SITs. You know, the ones that solve the problems and get the work done.
It’s funny you mention this. The last company I worked for had a sort of rewards program and one morning I had the chance to sit in on a zoom call to learn about it. Basically there were several ways to qualify for the rewards which was essentially bonus money. The speaker described the first path in about 20 seconds saying ‘Demonstrate a very high level of technical expertise in some area’ and then spent the next hour describing how the other 3 paths were various ways of generating sales for the company.
I just kind of sat there and laughed at the absurdity of it. I realized I had virtually no chance of seeing a dime of this money with the way the field to finish workflow was structured and seeing how the old timers had an iron grip on their PM positions and client contacts. Anyway, I’m still in disbelief at how little competency seemed to be valued compared to the ability to generate a sale.
In fact, one of the items that factored into my decision to leave that company was being browbeaten by PMs that had no idea how to operate the equipment I was using everyday; literally could not do the job if their life depended on it. And that was the just the knowledge part of it, factor in the 20-30 year “desk physique” and you’d have 10 points shot and a corpse laying face down in the dirt at the end of the day.
Posted by: @rover83It also seems that we gain licensees mainly because folks need/want a good pay bump, not necessarily because there’s nothing left for them to do except get licensed.
Sadly, that was most of my motivation. I would have preferred to have been more closely mentored and had more frequent incremental pay bumps, but like I’ve complained about before on here it seems like the guys with the experience, the guys in a position to teach, are too busy making money and don’t really care to pass along what they know. Anyway, I can almost guarantee that if I had kept doing what I was doing I would be an office tech or a party chief getting a dollar a year for the next 20-30 years with little else to show for it.
- Posted by: @williwaw
One of the things I’ve learned to look for in people is a certain fearlessness to ask questions and being willing to admit that they don’t know something, without feeling like they’d lose face and a drive to learn, curiosity in a word.
It’s funny… when I first got out of school I would ask questions, but more-so if it was about something completely foreign to me. Now that I have some experience I ask quite a few more questions, and even if it’s to confirm something I think I already understand.
Something I’ve noticed, and this goes back to my comment about snarky licenses, is that no matter what question I ask or how I ask it, the answer I get is usually snarky. It annoys me because I find it stupid and childish, but I’m old enough now where I can typically brush past it and focus on the answer. If I were younger though… I can almost guarantee these sorts of responses would make me shut down and either not ask anymore questions, or potentially cause me to ask people less qualified to answer them sorta like @chris-bouffard hinted at with PCs calling other PCs.
I agree it’s great to have people willing to ask questions, but I think it helps when the expert doesn’t use that as an opportunity to let their arrogance run wild.
When I read these posts I realize how fortunate I was to be the only employee in a 2 man office. One on one mentoring every day until I became licensed. The only thing I missed out on was working for a bad boundary surveyor.
I attended a survey conference not to long ago. And was listening and yes drinking with a lot of young and mid level guys from various companies. I have been a way from private sector side and wanted to get a better feel for who is who in my area. I said bar is where I will find that. It was interesting to listen to the loose lips from the beverages. As I listened I identified about 5 companies out of 30 that were represented during the next few weeks from various sources that had more praises than gripes. Now those 5 companies invested in there people. I am not talking pay as the highest priority but there were young folks with less than 2 years that were sent to the conference paid for by the employer. Most were small companies 1 was a larger firm. Out of the 5. One in particular was a young guy maybe 20 had a wife and baby. His employer sent him and wife and gave them money to eat on. His only requirement was to attend the ceu classes they had picked out. I ran a business and know how much it cost to put people in hotels and time away etc. But if one of those companies were close enough for me to commute I would walk in and say hire me. I learned that of those 5 they had monthly a day or morning or afternoon. That the owner or someone else would have a prepared little knowledge class in some form or fashion. It could be 1 hour on a rainy day to half day to teach. Mentor on the clock.
one guy took the FS and passed and he just emailed me and said when he showed his boss that he passed. His boss gave him $200 for test fee plus a little towards the gas and a great raise. It cost $175 for exam on FS . His boss will have a long term employee i am sure.
sometimes its the little things of investing a bit of time that goes further than the money. But i do think the money is way low compared to the late 90??s. Crew chiefs pay has not really increased since then from what I am seeing. I am looking at it from about 5 states that I have contacts in. And we all know cost of living and surviving has gone up. I always loved it when a boss showed up in the field and might have done nothing more than take a stroll around and discussing things. He was teaching and looking after his crews and his investment.
- Posted by: @bstrandPosted by: @williwaw
One of the things I’ve learned to look for in people is a certain fearlessness to ask questions and being willing to admit that they don’t know something, without feeling like they’d lose face and a drive to learn, curiosity in a word.
It’s funny… when I first got out of school I would ask questions, but more-so if it was about something completely foreign to me. Now that I have some experience I ask quite a few more questions, and even if it’s to confirm something I think I already understand.
Something I’ve noticed, and this goes back to my comment about snarky licenses, is that no matter what question I ask or how I ask it, the answer I get is usually snarky. It annoys me because I find it stupid and childish, but I’m old enough now where I can typically brush past it and focus on the answer. If I were younger though… I can almost guarantee these sorts of responses would make me shut down and either not ask anymore questions, or potentially cause me to ask people less qualified to answer them sorta like @chris-bouffard hinted at with PCs calling other PCs.
I agree it’s great to have people willing to ask questions, but I think it helps when the expert doesn’t use that as an opportunity to let their arrogance run wild.
Maybe there is an element of human nature involved, turf protection, knowledge is power. Perhaps it comes down to maturity. People that know that in order to move forward, there has to be a willingness to help bring others along to move ahead to fill the voids left behind. That’s really how it works IMHO. Few of us are completely 100% successful without the help of those around us and to forget that and be too egocentric, is to separate us from what makes us successful to begin with. Somewhere along the way I learned that in order to be a good leader, first I needed to learn to be a good follower, which sometimes means not taking everything personally and be capable of separating the wheat from all the garbage chaff that comes along with it. So if someone’s arrogance runs wild, that’s really on them and should not be seen as your burden to carry. Just another obstacle to be overcome.
Willy
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