Activity Feed › Discussion Forums › Education & Training › TI-84+ for survey class?…. or HP35s
I believe some TI calculators are approved, but only a few models by each manufacturer are allowed. There are restrictions against communicating calculators, alphanumeric storage, etc. and not even all models meeting the restrictions are permitted, I suppose to simplify the proctor’s task of checking them.
.The biggest discrepancy in the NCEES calculator policy, in my unwashed and humble opinion, is that the HPs are programmable while the TIs and Casios are not, and the programs are permitted. TI does not make a non-graphing programmable calculator, but Casio makes 5 models. At first glance, it’s hard to see how they all missed the cut.
It’s also hard to see how banning graphing calculators in general helps to protect the integrity of the exams. Those with QWERTY keyboards yes, but a general ban on the educational workhorse TIs and the HP50g seems a bit dated.
College Board handles this quite well on their AP calculus exam. QWERTY keyboards are banned but most anything else is permitted, including any pre-written programs. The caveat is that the calculator portion of the exam is much harder than the non-calculator part, so the particular calculator and its programs are of little consequence.
NCEES says that they review the calculator policy every year. Maybe next time they need to take a hard look instead.
- Posted by: half bubble
You need to learn the HP35s yourself, then teach them.
A supposed survey program that doesn’t teach how to use the exam approved calculators is only handicapping the students.
The TI 30XIIS (and a couple other TI models) are totally allowed in the exam.
- Posted by: MathTeacher
It’s also hard to see how banning graphing calculators in general helps to protect the integrity of the exams. Those with QWERTY keyboards yes, but a general ban on the educational workhorse TIs and the HP50g seems a bit dated.
I totally agree!
TI at job interview equaled immediate rejection at a past employer, for survey or engineering position. 🙂 Jp
Every firm has its standards, but one that chooses calculators over people may not be the best place to work. I was looking at my arsenal of calculators this morning: TI84+, TI86, TI89, and HP50g, none of which is allowed on the exam. But I have a Casio fx115MS which may be allowed, perhaps at the discretion of the proctor after a telegram to headquarters. How a graphing calculator threatens the integrity of the exam but one containing specialized programs germane to the exam problems does not is beyond me.
By the way, the HP35s includes an algebraic mode. If you had that calculator, but had never used it in RPN mode, would you have been hired?
- Posted by: Mark Mayer
BTW – every calculator is more or less 1985 technology at best.
nice. so we’re calculator shaming now ? ?
To answer:
The program is a two year survey technician program, coming out of the engineering program. So at this point, the majority of classes are still engineering based, with a total of 60 instructional hours dedicated to survey, and a total of 12 weeks of internship with survey companies to graduate.
Obviously, more time dedicated to surveying is needed, but as this is a new program, so advancements will be made in baby steps. Additionally, with only 2 PLS??s and a survey manager to do the instructing of the survey portion, more surveyors (or a retired one) would need to step up.
The financial return on instructing frankly isn??t worth it, but with the advancement of technology, resulting in smaller field crews, nobody is really training chainmen anymore. Teaching is just a way to pay back to a career I love (while handpicking the best potential hires).
I am going to require the HP35s. It is suitable for the LSIT (FE) exam, which a graduating student should be prepared for and would expand their hiring opportunities. Additionally, if I had never been taught how to program my 48 in school, I would have never learned…. this way, the students will be able to learn to program a calculator all the basic survey functions.
And as far as calculators training ??button pushers?, I disagree. At least with a calculator you learn the steps and math behind what is happening. Data collectors are the realm of ??button pushers?, with no real knowledge of what is happening with an inverse, a resection, or traverse closure.
Frankly, nobody does longhand anymore (outside of school) beyond simple angle addition or possibly taking the mean of 2 faces.
- Posted by: [email protected]
And as far as calculators training ??button pushers?, I disagree. At least with a calculator you learn the steps and math behind what is happening. Data collectors are the realm of ??button pushers?, with no real knowledge of what is happening with an inverse, a resection, or traverse closure.
Frankly, nobody does longhand anymore (outside of school) beyond simple angle addition or possibly taking the mean of 2 faces.
The philosophy of both our Associate of Applied Science degree programs in Civil Engineering Tech & Geomatics Tech is that we teach the math behind the screens, be they data collectors or Excel spreadsheets or Civil 3D earthwork volumes, so that our technicians know enough to recognize fishy results, do some basic troubleshooting, and think ahead to whom they’re handing the data set off next, and just maybe help them out by consistently describing similar points in the data collector ;-).
Hi there,
Does anyone knows how to type a lower cases letters (alphabet) on HP35.
I programmed and used the hp35s for my FS and PS exams.
I still use it to do calculations at my desk. I’m not familiar with the TI, but I am biased to hp because I cut my teeth on the hp48gx with smi dce 5 back in the late 90s. It’s all I ever used. In fact, going to the hp35 was tough because of the limited stack and functionality vs the 48.
After taking the FS and PS, find myself sticking with the 35 over my 48
I bought a TI when I started college and ended up buying a HP 35s in the last semester of my final year so I could learn it before taking the FS. It would have been nice to be able to go through the program with just the HP but based on my experience I ended up using the TI for 95% of my course work.
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